W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-webont-wg@w3.org > October 2002

ADMIN: Minutes of Oct. 24 Telecon

From: Leo Obrst <lobrst@mitre.org>
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 15:26:29 -0500
Message-ID: <3DBC4BF5.D6565963@mitre.org>
To: W3C Web Ontology WG <www-webont-wg@w3.org>

Minutes of October 24, 2002 Telecon

WEB ONTOLOGY WORKING GROUP
October 24, 2002

Quotes and attributions are approximate.
See chat log for details: http://www.w3.org/2002/10/24-webont-irc

Chair: Guus Schreiber
Scribe: Leo Obrst


SUMMARY:

1) RESOLUTIONS

TRUE RECORD OF MINUTES of 10/17/02 ACCEPTED, including amendment by
Wallace:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0118.html

TRUE RECORD OF BRISTOL F2F Oct 7-8, 2002 ACCEPTED:
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/ftf4

PROPOSAL OF ISSUE 5.21 "Drop disjointUnionOf" ACCEPTED. Issue 5.21
DROPPED.

2) NEW ACTIONS

1.5 Telecon schedule
SCRIBE: Libby Miller, Oct. 31
SCRIBE: Lynn Thompson, Nov. 7

1.6.1 Upcoming ftf meetings
NEW ACTION: Guus to collect info about remote access arrangements
NEW ACTION: Ian will put up local arrangements page: Hotel info, etc.
NEW ACTION: Dan Connolly will put up Registration page

3.1 Issue 5.21 "Drop disjointUnionOf"
NEW ACTION: Chris Welty, Mike Smith, other relevant working draft
editors to update drafts.

3.1 Issue 5.5 List syntax or semantics
NEW ACTION: Chairs Guus and Jim: discuss this in RDF CORE, Semantic Web
Coordination
3.1 Issue I5.19 Classes-as-instances
NEW ACTION: Guus, Frank: to move the issue forward, will write up 1-d
and 2-d views to make clearer to users.

3.1 New Issues
NEW ACTION: Jeremy raises intensional vs. extensional issue,
disagreements

4. DOCUMENT STATUS REVIEW - Test document (Carroll, de Roo)
NEW ACTION: All editors: Every new draft, apply same rule: Web Ontology
Language (OWL) and then reference version (1.1.0).
See October 22 message.
NEW ACTION: Jeremy to send out new form of rule, with version, etc.

4. DOCUMENT STATUS REVIEW - Guide document (Smith et al.)
NEW ACTION: Chris Welty to review
NEW ACTION: Mike Smith to forward revised ontologies to Jeremy.

4. DOCUMENT STATUS REVIEW - Feature synopsis (McGuinness, van Harmelen)
NEW ACTION: Guus and Frank to offer suggestions on how synopsis,
reference document should be updated about 3 languages and their
relationships.

4. DOCUMENT STATUS REVIEW - OWL Reference (Dean)
NEW ACTION: Mike Dean will have new version by next telecon, Oct. 31.

4. DOCUMENT STATUS REVIEW - Semantics document (Hayes, Patel-Schneider)
NEW ACTION: Peter will produce an outline with pointers.

4. DOCUMENT STATUS REVIEW - Non-normative Appendices

XML presentation syntax (Patel-Schneider)
NEW ACTION: Guus to put on agenda for next week, Oct. 31, look up who
has reviewed it.

UML presentation syntax (Schreiber, Wallace)
NEW ACTION: Chairs to put off until next telecon, Oct. 31.



DETAIL:

1) ADMIN (15 min)

1.1 Roll call

Jeremy Carroll
Dan Connolly
Mike Dean
Jos De Roo
Larry Eshelman
Nick Gibbins
Pat Hayes
Ian Horrocks
Ruediger Klein
Massimo Marchiori
Deborah McGuinness
Libby Miller
Leo Obrst
Peter Patel-Schneider
Marwan Sabbouh
Guus Schreiber
Mike Smith
John Stanton
Lynn Stein
Herman ter Horst
Lynn Thompson
Evan Wallace
Chris Welty

Regrets: Hendler, van Harmelen, Hellman, Finin, Heflin, Borden, Dale

1.2 Minutes previous telecon

Proposal to accept as a true record of the Oct 17 telcon:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0118.html
including amendment sent by Wallace (regrets).

PROPOSAL ACCEPTED.

1.3 Agenda amendments

1.4 Fft record

Proposal to accept the follwing as a true record of the face-to-face
meeting in Bristol, Oct 7-8:
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/ftf4

See also message about updates since last week:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0156.html

PROPOSAL TO ACCEPT RECORD: PASSED.

ACTION Volz: send OWL Lite in Datalog to W3C for the meeting record
    (Clarification: the presentation materials not just the paper.)
WITHDRAWN.


1.5 Telecon schedule

- next telecon: Oct 31 per regular schedule
- scribe solicited for Oct 3
SCRIBE: Libby Miller, Oct. 31
SCRIBE: Lynn Thompson, volunteers for following week, Nov. 7

- note that DST end in US and Europe on Oct 27, so time difference
    with Japan increases by 1 hour.


1.6 Upcoming ftf meetings

- Manchester ftf will go though as provisionally planned, but is
    likely to be focused on test and implementations

Ian: remote access is still up in the air, so folks should notify Ian.

NEW ACTION: Guus to collect info about remote access arrangements
NEW ACTION: Ian will put up local arrangements page: Hotel info, etc.
NEW ACTION: Dan Connolly will put up Registration page


2) ACTION ITEM REVIEW (0-5 min)

ACTION: Jeremy send message showing how rdfs fits into lite/fast/large
    layering
DONE:
# Layering on RDFS Jeremy Carroll (Fri, Oct 18 2002)
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0113.html

ACTION Ian Horrocks: send www-webont-wg a brief description of
    results of rules work on DAML.
DONE:
# ACTION - rules work on DAML Ian Horrocks (Thu, Oct 17 2002)
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0109.html

ACTION: Frank will come up with some more use cases (ontology merging).
WITHDRAWN: concerns Issue 5.1, discussed 10Sep.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0104.html
but issue 5.1 has since been closed.

3) ISSUES (25-35 min)

Issue list:
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html

3.1 Issue 5.21 "Drop disjointUnionOf"

Issue description:

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html#I5.21-drop-disjointUnionOf

ACTION: Peter to generate test case to show disjointUnionOf can be
    rephrased w/existing constructs [and propose to close 5.21 by
    removing disjointUnionOf]

Proposal by Patel-Schneider to close this issue:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0120.html
Response by Connoly (seconds proposal plus worked-out example):
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0160.html

Evan: sent email, this is what he asked for.
Dan: Is this clear to editors? Yes. Wants to get into Guide too, contact
Mike.

NEW ACTION: Chris Welty, Mike Smith, other relevant working draft
editors to update drafts.

PROPOSAL PASSES.


3.2 Brief review of other open issues

- Issue 4.3 Structured datatypes

ACTION: DanC Write rationale for postponing 4.3.

DONE:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0157.html

Response by Borden:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0168.html

STILL OPEN.

Jeremy: this is an RDF CORE issue, not OWL. Jonathan Borden could make
his comments to RDF CORE. Jeremy will reply to list suggesting this.


- Issue 5.5 List syntax or semantics

ACTION Jeremy Carroll: will move issue 5.5 forward

DONE:
# SEM: List's Jeremy Carroll (Fri, Oct 04 2002)
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0138.html

Jeremy: RDF CORE: how much will they do; how much will OWL do?
Dan had complained about the proposal. Jeremy is very unhappy.

NEW ACTION: Chairs Guus and Jim: discuss this in RDF CORE, Semantic Web
Coordination

- Issue 5.7 Range restrictions should not be separate URIs

ACTION Chairs: see if Ziv wishes to push Issue 5.7 or Postpone

STILL OPEN

- Issue 5.13 Internet Media Type for OWL

ACTION Connolly: to move issue 5.13 forward

DONE:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0162.html

Peter: TAG to review? Happy to leave it unresolved for now
STILL OPEN

- Issue 5.14 - Ontology versioning

ACTION: Hayes - send e-mail opposing deprecation.

This seems to come from a 1Sep discussion
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Sep/0172.html
Still relevant?

ACTION WITHDRAWN

- Issue 5.18 support for unique names assumption

ACTION Hendler: to move Issue 5.18 forward

See also
# ISSUE 5.18 Unique Names Assumption Support in OWL Jos De_Roo
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0163.html

and response by Peter Patel-Schneider:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0169.html

Peter: if you have it in a way that's part of the logic of OWL, breaks
RDF.
Jos: agrees it is an issue.
Jeremy: flag in the exchange level?

ACTION CONTINUED.

- Issue I5.19 Classes-as-instances

ACTION Jeremy: to do test case for 5.19

cf
# Issue 5.19 Classes-as-instances Jeremy Carroll (Fri, Oct 18 2002)
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0127.html
ACTION CONTINUED.

ACTION Chairs: will ask Raphael if we want to bring this (5.19
   Classes as Instances) forward
ACTION CONTINUED.

ACTION: Frank work with Guus to formulate proposal close
   classes-as-instances incl lite/fast/large
Postponed to next telecon (Frank on holiday)
ACTION CONTINUED.

Dan: Lite syntactic subclass of fast.
Chris: Enrico is against it.
Pat: against Dan's proposal.
Ian: spoke with Enrico about it, perhaps his interpretation is unclear?
Guus, Ian: OWL Lite as an extension of some subset of RDF Schema
Jeremy: if RDF CORE did the split for us, might be better for us.
Guus: burden on Deb's document.
Jeremy: see Message 113 in October list.
Pat: case can be made that there is a 2-d diagram: fast: to restrict
language for deductive reasoning, small: restrict the syntax. Could have
a large fast case. So there are 4 cases, rather than 3 cases. Simplicity
of presentation restricts it to 3, but technically 4 cases.
Ian: what is justification of OWL Lite at all; only is ease of
implementation.
Lynn: no, ease of understanding too.
Ian: doesn't justify a named sublanguage.
Dan: implementation is relevant, but not the justification. Points to
the feature synopsis.
Ian: decision is ridiculous.
Deb: feature synopsis points to other write-ups.
Jeremy: all implementations of OWL will affect OWL Lite, in 1-D view.

NEW ACTION: Guus, Frank: to move the issue forward, will write up 1-d
and 2-d views to make clearer to users.

Lynn: marketing
Dan: yes, expectations.
Pat: OWL is a large language, and fast OWL is a large subset
Ian: rename Lite.

- New issues:

ACTION DebM: raise hasValue issue.
Deb: hasn't gotten Raphael's concrete example; is easily implemntable
ACTION CONTINUED.

NEW ACTION: Jeremy raise intensional vs. extensional issue,
disagreements

4) DOCUMENT STATUS REVIEW (25-35 min)

- naming

ACTION Frank: collect suggestions for replacement name (for owl lite,
   large, and fast)

# new names for OWL lite/fast/large Frank van Harmelen (Fri, Oct 18
2002)
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0129.html

and following.

DAN: any clear winner?
Guus: No clear winner yet. OWL reserved for Large or Fast discussion:
which?
Pat: get rid of term FAST, FAST: OWL (abstract syntax language) and
LARGE: OWL/rdf
Deb: what about corporate resistance to RDF?
Chris: don't use OWL/RDF
Chris: use OWL for OWL/RDF.
Dan: all documents will reflect the names
Guus: people might get confused as to what real OWL is? OWL is a point
in space
Deb: 4 languages: OWL + 3 languages with postfixes
Jos: OWL, restricted syntactically: OWL Lite, restricted semantically:
OWL FAST
Dan: concerned without Frank being present
Guus: to notify Frank
Dan: use forms interface?
Guus: not yet, maybe decide next week.
Ian: once we decide on ordering, one name for all, but would be nice if
the names gave some feel for the ordering
Chris: Number of them like Basic: OWL10, OWL20, OWL30.

- Test document (Carroll, de Roo)


Cf.
# TEST,EDITORS: WD title change Jeremy Carroll (Tue, Oct 22 2002)
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0143.html

ACTION: Dan Connolly will fix 403 errors arising from the document.
CONTINUED.

Jeremy: name rule spells out Web Ontology Language.

NEW ACTION: All editors: Every new draft, apply same rule: Web Ontology
Language (OWL) and then reference version (1.1.0).
See October 22 message.
NEW ACTION: Jeremy to send out new form of rule, with version, etc.

- Guide document (Smith et al.)

ACTION MikeSmith Add indication that classes as instances are part of
Large
   OWL in Guide.
CONTINUED, to be completed next week.
Mike: prefix everything with bin: namespace. Style issues?

ACTION: Mike to explain classes as instances.
CONTINUED.
ACTION: Thompson - to complete review guide
CONTINUED, needs to be done right after document is out.
ACTION: Obrst - to complete review guide.
CONTINUED, needs to be done right after document is out.
NEW ACTION: Chris Welty to review

Dan: Nov 18, big black hole, has to be completed by then, with reviews
or not.

NEW ACTION: Mike Smith to forward revised ontologies to Jeremy.

- Feature syniosis (McGuinness, van Harmelen)

ACTION Deb M: publish synopsis
CONTINUED, will be out by next Telecon. One question: just will point to
write up of classes as instances. OWL Lite, Fast, Large should be in
too, but uncertain what to say.

NEW ACTION: Guus and Frank to offer suggestion on how synopsis,
reference document should be updated about 3 languages and their
relationships.

- OWL Reference (Dean)

NEW ACTION: Mike Dean will have new version by next telecon.

ACTION: Jeremy liase with Mike about updating the OWL RDFS namespace doc

CONTINUED.

ACTION Mike Dean: update reference to remove constraint that
   inversefunctional is objectproperty.
DONE.

ACTION: Mike to remove the sameXXX statements from owl reference
DONE.

ACTION MikeD catch ref up with issues, publish reference.
CONTINUED.

Mike Dean: could use Guus & Frank's suggestions about 3 languages and
their relationships.
Dan: Large OWL only affected here. Reference doesn't cover Fast Owl,
that's in semantics doc and in guide.
Deb: Mike should point to other documents for other info on other OWL
languages.


- Abstract syntax (Patel-Schneider, Horrocks)

Guus: Does Peter want to merge this with semantics doc? Makes sense. How
do we explain to users how to use these docs.
Peter: hasn't thought about it yet.
Dan: hoping for a semantics doc that includes abstract syntax.
Guus: this is my preference too.
Pat: could write this, but not have proof in it, could have an appendix
with the heavy technical stuff in it, then Dan's suggestion would be
good.

- Semantics document (Hayes, Patel-Schneider)

ACTION Peter Patel-Schneider/Pat Hayes: draft OWL semantics,
   including the "2 technical bits" [should also address issues 4.6,
   5.9, 5.22]

cf.
# work on OWL semantics Peter F. Patel-Schneider (Wed, Oct 23 2002)
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0161.html

Peter: anyone who reads and understands this doc, will be good.
Dan: not what he expected. Hoping for a doc of the design.
Pat: hasn't reviewed this.
Peter: if you follow the links, will have this.
Pat: structure of semantics document. Could have a separate document
(compound document) for technical stuff.
Guus: Peter, how about the abstract syntax stuff?
Peter: will think about this.
Pat: but abstract syntax should be higher and available to readers, not
buried.
Peter: UML could be nonnormative appendix of OWL Lite.

NEW ACTION: Peter will produce an outline with pointers.

ACTION Pat Hayes: be sure upcoming semantics draft addresses 5.22
CONTINUED.

ACTION: 4.6 EquivalentTo - suggested that Peter and Pat look at it,
   issue to remain OPEN
CONTINUED.

ACTION JeremyC: produce test cases (for semantics)
CONTINUED.

ACTION Dan Connolly: test case (stateCode)
CONTINUED.

ACTION Jos DeRoo: test case (something about inverseFunctional
   properties and literals) (two test case actions pending release of
   test WD - test area  > temporarily frozen)
CONTINUED.

- Non-normative Appendices

    * XML presentation syntax (Patel-Schneider)

ACTION Peter Patel-Schneider: to move issue 5.17 XML presentation
   syntax forward

DONE:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0155.html

NEW ACTION: Guus to put on agenda for next week, look up who has
reviewed it.

* UML presentation syntax (Schreiber, Wallace)

NEW ACTION: Chairs to put off until next telecon

5) AOB (0-5 min)



--
_____________________________________________
Dr. Leo Obrst  The MITRE Corporation
mailto:lobrst@mitre.org Intelligent Information Management/Exploitation
Voice: 703-883-6770 7515 Colshire Drive, M/S W640
Fax: 703-883-1379       McLean, VA 22102-7508, USA
Received on Sunday, 27 October 2002 15:26:39 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Monday, 7 December 2009 10:57:53 GMT