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RE: ACTION-388 Take a look at LMM's doctype/versioning proposal

From: <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:37:59 -0500
To: Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>
Cc: Jonathan Rees <jar@creativecommons.org>, "www-tag@w3.org" <www-tag@w3.org>
Message-ID: <OF79F9569E.6002037A-ON852576CD.0070CE1E-852576CD.0071518B@lotus.com>
Larry Masinter writes:

> I took up this issue in HTML, although I have no personal concern
> about polyglot documents, because I heard some TAG members concerned
> about it.

> However, given current circumstances: I'd like someone else who
> cares about "polyglot" documents to take up this "change proposal".

In preparation for our telcon discussion tomorrow, I'd like to ask TAG 
members to give some thought to the following questions:

* Do you believe that the TAG should (continue to) be proactive in 
encouraging support for polyglot documents in HTML5?  If so, which 
documents should be supported, which not, etc.?

* If your answer to the question above is "yes", do you feel that Larry's 
proposal is something that the TAG should carry forward, as Larry 
suggests, or is there some other approach you think we should investigate?

* Are there any other reasons you do/don't think we should pursue Larry's 
proposal, or maybe something close to it?

Thank you.

Noah

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jan/0015.html

--------------------------------------
Noah Mendelsohn 
IBM Corporation
One Rogers Street
Cambridge, MA 02142
1-617-693-4036
--------------------------------------








Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>
Sent by: www-tag-request@w3.org
02/17/2010 01:13 PM
 
        To:     "noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com" <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com>, 
Jonathan Rees <jar@creativecommons.org>
        cc:     "www-tag@w3.org" <www-tag@w3.org>
        Subject:        RE: ACTION-388 Take a look at LMM's 
doctype/versioning proposal


I took up this issue in HTML, although I have no personal concern
about polyglot documents, because I heard some TAG members concerned
about it.

(I will add, for the TAG members, that I take seriously the idea
that on the TAG I am not speaking for Adobe, but to emphasize,
I am not aware of any particular specific concern from Adobe about
polyglot documents either.)

However, given current circumstances: I'd like someone else who
cares about "polyglot" documents to take up this "change proposal".

The issue is being discussed on in the HTML working group, though,
and perhaps the best thing would be for other TAG members to engage
there personally.

Larry
--
http://larry.masinter.net


-----Original Message-----
From: www-tag-request@w3.org [mailto:www-tag-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of 
noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:35 PM
To: Jonathan Rees
Cc: www-tag@w3.org
Subject: Re: ACTION-388 Take a look at LMM's doctype/versioning proposal

Jonathan,

I need to learn more from Larry and others what's needed too, but there is 

an ACTION on the HTML side, assigned to Larry, So, I think you are exactly 

right that you fulfilled your formal action, which was to take a look, and 

we noted that awhile ago. The question is now:  what if anything does the 
TAG want to do, either to help Larry to fulfill his HTML action, or 
possibly to get involved in some other way in the doctype/versioning 
question.  This may turn out to be a simple or even trivial exercise on 
our part, but I do want to see if we can deal with it on Thurs.   So, 
Jonathan, I'm not aware of anything that specifically is in your court 
right now,  The pending review status of 388 correctly reflects that you 
are (likely) done with your bit of this.

Noah

--------------------------------------
Noah Mendelsohn 
IBM Corporation
One Rogers Street
Cambridge, MA 02142
1-617-693-4036
--------------------------------------








Jonathan Rees <jar@creativecommons.org>
02/16/2010 03:24 PM
 
        To:     noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com
        cc:     "www-tag@w3.org" <www-tag@w3.org>
        Subject:        Re: ACTION-388 Take a look at LMM's 
doctype/versioning proposal


(Remove cc: dignitaries)

Sorry, I had no idea anyone was waiting for anything from me. My
action was to take a look, which I did; I asked Larry, who requested
the action, if anything else was needed and got no answer, which was
fine with me. What can I or we do that would be most useful - what is
the HTML WG looking for? If they're looking for some kind of TAG
endorsement or consensus statement it's got to be more than just me
doing the looking.

To repeat, the technical content seemed fine to me (someone who has
never touched a DOCTYPE with a ten-foot pole), but I thought it could
use some editorial attention.

Jonathan

On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 2:46 PM,  <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> Paul: we are having a teleconference on the 18th, and I'll put it first 
up
> on our agenda.  Might I ask you to wait for the results of that
> discussion, which we will attempt to communicate to you promptly?
>
> TAG members:  please look through the discussions associated with our
> ACTION-388 prior to the Thursday call, as that will maximize the chance
> that we can do a good job on this without unnecessarily delaying 
progress
> on the HTML WG side.
>
> Thank you.
>
> No
>
> --------------------------------------
> Noah Mendelsohn
> IBM Corporation
> One Rogers Street
> Cambridge, MA 02142
> 1-617-693-4036
> --------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
> Sent by: www-tag-request@w3.org
> 02/16/2010 02:35 PM
>
>        To:     Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>, Robin Berjon
> <robin@berjon.com>
>        cc:     Jonathan Rees <jar@creativecommons.org>, "www-tag@w3.org"
> <www-tag@w3.org>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Maciej Stachowiak
> <mjs@apple.com>, (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
>        Subject:        RE: ACTION-388 Take a look at LMM's
> doctype/versioning proposal
>
>
> ACTION-172 in the HTML WG is due this Thu Feb 18 and I believe it is
> awaiting input from the TAG via ACTION-388.
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/172
>
> Can the TAG participants working on TAG ACTION-388 give us some idea 
when
> you are going to complete this work so that we can make progress on
> ACTION-172 in the HTML WG?
>
> /paulc
>
>
> Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
> 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
> Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: www-tag-request@w3.org [mailto:www-tag-request@w3.org] On Behalf 
Of
> Larry Masinter
> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 5:28 AM
> To: Robin Berjon
> Cc: Jonathan Rees; www-tag@w3.org
> Subject: RE: ACTION-388 Take a look at LMM's doctype/versioning proposal
>
>> Are you suggesting to change the way in which HTML5
>> documents handle PUBLID and SYSTEM IDs, as well I
>> presume as the internal subset, so that they can be
>>  used in conforming text/html serialisations?
>
> "documents" don't handle things, "processors" do.
> There are XML processors and HTML5 processors.
>
> I'm proposing to leave HTML5 processors exactly
> as they are specified, not changing them one
> teeny bit.
>
> I'd like to allow *some* use cases of *some*
> XML processors that use Public Identifiers and
> System identifiers to define subsets they're
> willing to process, and use the pubid and sysid
> to identify those subsets.
>
> Make sense?
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 17 February 2010 20:38:34 GMT

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