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Minutes, 4 Feb 2010 SVG WG

From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 22:35:02 +0100
Message-ID: <1631236067.20100204223502@w3.org>
To: www-svg@w3.org
Hello www-svg,

Minutes are at 
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html

and below as text. Thanks to Patrick Dengler for taking his first scribe duty.

                   SVG Working Group Teleconference

04 Feb 2010

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          +1.425.868.aaaa, ed, Shepazu, ChrisL, anthony, Patrick

   Regrets
   Chair
          Erik

   Scribe
          Patrick

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Changes in spec vs. changes in errata
         2. [5]Proposed working for gradient rendering
         3. [6]Line caps drawing on zero length lines
         4. [7]'symbol' and 'display: none' clarification
         5. [8]Further error processing clarifications in XHTML for
            example
         6. [9]SVGElementInstance mixed support
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 04 February 2010

   is this the correct suite?
   [11]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Test/20061213/htmlObjectHarness/f
   ull-color-prof-01-f.html

     [11] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Test/20061213/htmlObjectHarness/full-color-prof-01-f.html

   <ed> [12]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/

     [12] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/

   <ChrisL> Scribe: Patrick

   <ChrisL> Scribenick: pdengler

   ed: Proposed agenda items

   [13]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/

     [13] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/

   [14]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/

     [14] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/

   ed: #1 Test suites. These have been updated

   pdengler: Should we push out test suites for XHTML

   shepazu: Is Microsoft thinking about supporting XHTML mime type and
   extension?

   chris: pdengler : really?

   <ChrisL> :)

   ed: Is is possible to move the harness to XHTML

   <ChrisL> yes, no problem

   ChrisL: We can serve XHTML with no problem

   ed: Who can we get to make another harness....

   anthony: Is that the only thing left?

   ed: No. XHTML should be trivial.
   ... Many references images were missing or incorrect. Have you done
   updates on those?

   anthony: No, haven't done that

   shepazu: Is it different betwen XHML and HTML?

   ChrisL: Shouldn't be

   <scribe> ACTION: anthony Create XHTML harness for test suites
   [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2721 - Create XHTML harness for test
   suites [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-02-11].

   <scribe> ACTION: anthony Fix up references images and missing images
   on test suites [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2722 - Fix up references images and
   missing images on test suites [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-02-11].

   ed: Issue : Changes in spec vs. changes in errata

Changes in spec vs. changes in errata

   ed: Was reading the process document regarding how to proceed with
   eratta. It does seem we need to keep them up to date as well as get
   reviews.

   ChrisL: Groups must collected feedback and 'should' do so in timely
   manner.
   ... One method is to mark proposed eratta and approved errata but no
   one (?) has ever done it
   ... Other way is to get review done by publishing the whole entire
   document; changes need to be marked for reviewers

   pdengler: Is the appending up to date?

   ed: Should be. And there should be links to the SVC change logs

   <ChrisL> s/SVC.CVS/

   shepazu: I don't know if it's useful to maintain the eratta
   seperately except as a transtional thing

   ChrisL: We were using that process but then we started moving them
   directly into the spec.

   shepazu: Before move on can we cover anthony's gradient issue

Proposed working for gradient rendering

   <ed>
   [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0005.html

     [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0005.html

   <ed>
   [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0006.html

     [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0006.html

   anthony: Read this and kind of agree with this. If you read the
   parts about which order things are applied.

   shepazu: What is the gradient normal

   CL: perpendicular (90 degrees)
   ... it's 90 degrees in it's own coordinate system, but if you skew
   it should no longer be normal

   anthony: Will make this clearer

   shepazu: make sense to align for illustrator

   ed: Haven't heard about this issue, but we will fix it

   ChrisL: All of the editors do it the same way, and some of the
   viewers do it the same, some do it different

   <ed> s/haven't heard about this issue/haven't seen any bugreports on
   this issue/

   ChrisL: Will revise wording on gradients next week

   ed: topic: read-only vs. non read-only IDLs

   <ed>
   [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0008.html
   (point #3a)

     [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0008.html

   pdengler: Seem to be inconsitencies here.

   ed: Would have been good to have Cameron here.
   ... Not suppose to be able write to animated values, which is what
   the IDL is trying to express.
   ... if you find other places, send a pointer and we will look at
   those
   ... mutable/immutable would be clearer but not sure if IDL allows
   this to be expressed

   pdengler: We will investigate this on our side and if we find
   anything still as an issue, we will get back

   shepazu: keep in mind WebIDL for 2.0 will help remove these
   inconsistencies

Line caps drawing on zero length lines

   <ed>
   [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0010.html

     [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0010.html

   pdengler: If we make the adjustment to the spec that Erik suggested
   "update F.5 section to also say that 'butt' linecaps means nothing
   is drawn"

   <scribe> ACTION: pdengler update sectoin on line caps (F.5) do read
   that reflect nothing is drawn for 'butt' linecaps [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2723 - Update sectoin on line caps (F.5)
   do read that reflect nothing is drawn for 'butt' linecaps [on
   Patrick Dengler - due 2010-02-11].

   ed: topic: CSS spec changes

   shepazu: the CSS working group has the style spec for the 'style'
   attribute; how to parse unit-less values
   ... Did you (ChrisL) send the response

   <ChrisL> ACTION-2718?

   <trackbot> ACTION-2718 -- Chris Lilley to write wording about
   unitless property values for CSS Styling Attributes Level 1 spec --
   due 2010-02-01 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [22]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2718

     [22] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2718

   shepazu: Things like stroke-width, if you use a unit, that's defined
   in the coordinate space (root), it could have unpredictable events.

   <ed>
   [23]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/filters.html#EnableBackgroundProperty

     [23] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/filters.html#EnableBackgroundProperty

   shepazu: Comments are due on the 6th (or 8th)

   <ed>
   [24]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/painting.html#FillOpacityProperty

     [24] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/painting.html#FillOpacityProperty

   ChrisL: I will get them in

   <ed> [25]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/propidx.html

     [25] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/propidx.html

   ChrisL: Discussion with CSS group wasn't as fruitful this time as
   they had other items on their agena
   ... Didn't get to any stuff that applies to SVG. These are on
   wednesday

   pdengler: Is there a list of SVG specifics that we want to discuss
   with CSS?

   shepazu: We should put this on a wiki page for CSS collaborations.
   This is the stuff the task for should be covering

   <anthony> [26]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/FX-Taskforce

     [26] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/FX-Taskforce

   shepazu: There are folks in css trying to push forward items like
   animation, but they are not really actively engaged
   ... There are folks on the FX working group that will help push this
   forward; we will be isolate folks who specialize in graphics and
   move forward more quickly

   pdengler: Isn't tranisitions moving along

   ChrisL: It is.

   shepazu: We can have some say on how they apply to SVG as this is
   not yet articulated

   ed: I should publish some examples I made for SVG Open with CSS
   transitions and SVG

'symbol' and 'display: none' clarification

   <ed>
   [27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0011.html

     [27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0011.html

   ed: Display should be respected and the spec is clear, except for
   x,y; firefox and webkit respect them anyway

   ChrisL: The idea was to define a symbol indepdenent of how it was
   going to use; where you have no edit control (i.e. symbol library)

   shepazu: neither symbol nor marker necessarily makes sense in that
   context

   ChrisL: Original thiking was a single SVG file with symbols in them
   ... Fragment was made mandatory, but shouldn't have had to

   <ChrisL> ISSUE: non mandatory fragments on use

   <trackbot> Created ISSUE-2303 - Non mandatory fragments on use ;
   please complete additional details at
   [28]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2303/edit .

     [28] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2303/edit

   shepazu: suppose you had a file full of symbols and you wanted to
   reference just one of them, you would still have to download the
   whole file
   ... at what point does it make sense to split them up? these could
   be good recommendations for external references.

   pdengler: Isn't SVG fonts just another symbol/marker

   ChrisL: Yes, SVG fonts is just another use case of symbol/marker

   ed: It does give it some new behavior for textual representation

   shepazu: Now looking out, how can we cut things down to simplify
   implementations

   ChrisL: needs analysis as sometimes you find specifics that are
   required

   shepazu: Let's look at the differences between nested SVG, symbol
   and marker, e.g. and we might find the Symbol and marker are just
   short hands for nested SVG

   ChrisL: If we are talking about refactoring, the number of times you
   use markers is low, and if you want markers, you should have a
   polymarker elements for example

   <ChrisL> I updated ISSUE-2303 to add some details, and assigned it
   to SVG Core 2.0

   <ChrisL> (discussion on markers and symbols and interactivity)

Further error processing clarifications in XHTML for example

   <ed>
   [29]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/ua-tests/bold-italic-strike
   through-element-inherit.xhtml

     [29] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/ua-tests/bold-italic-strikethrough-element-inherit.xhtml

   ed: Think it's more of XHTML/HTML

   ChrisL: Not necessariy; could be style issue.

   <ChrisL> <b> is the same as <span style="font-weight: bold"> so
   should inherit the same way

   ChrisL: This scenario, really being a style issue should behave in
   this manner (inherit appropriately)
   ... Think about strike through on <textPath>. you have to calculate
   geometries if you want a smooth strike-through

   ed: Not sure what happens if you do vertical text

   ChrisL: Underdefined for non-horizontal text

   shepazu: does there exist another convention for strike through for
   vertical text? Find out if they use strike through

   ChrisL: Japanesese has some examples here

SVGElementInstance mixed support

   ed: not deprecated. it needs to be correctly implemented (as has
   been done in opera and webkit). I you have test cases that shows
   inconsistencies, that would be a good thing to contribute

   shepazu: (still on the older topic) Japanese has double-strike
   through

   ed: only way to get to these is through correspondingElement to get
   the actual elements referenced

   <scribe> ACTION: pdengler Update spec on Minor Correction to DOM
   language
   [30]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#Relatio
   nshipWithDOM2Events [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action04]

     [30] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#RelationshipWithDOM2Events

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2724 - Update spec on Minor Correction to
   DOM language
   [32]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#Relatio
   nshipWithDOM2Events [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-02-11].

     [32] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#RelationshipWithDOM2Events

   ed: topic SVGSVGElement 'width' and 'height'

   <shepazu> ACTION-4?

   <trackbot> ACTION-4 does not exist

   anthony: save SVGSVGElement 'width' and 'height' for next telcon

   <shepazu> ACTION-2724?

   <trackbot> ACTION-2724 -- Patrick Dengler to update spec on Minor
   Correction to DOM language
   [33]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#Relatio
   nshipWithDOM2Events -- due 2010-02-11 -- OPEN

     [33] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#RelationshipWithDOM2Events

   <trackbot> [34]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2724

     [34] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2724

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: anthony Create XHTML harness for test suites [recorded
   in [35]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: anthony Fix up references images and missing images on
   test suites [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: pdengler update sectoin on line caps (F.5) do read
   that reflect nothing is drawn for 'butt' linecaps [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: pdengler Update spec on Minor Correction to DOM
   language
   [38]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#Relatio
   nshipWithDOM2Events [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action04]

     [38] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#RelationshipWithDOM2Events

   [End of minutes]
     ________________________________________________________

-- 
 Chris Lilley                    mailto:chris@w3.org
 Technical Director, Interaction Domain
 W3C Graphics Activity Lead
 Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
Received on Thursday, 4 February 2010 21:35:44 GMT

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