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RE: Strawman proposal for UTR #50: Unicode Properties for Vertical Text Layout

From: Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gluesoft.co.jp>
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:57:41 -0400
To: "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>
Message-ID: <A592E245B36A8949BDB0A302B375FB4E0CF6977794@MAILR001.mail.lan>
For Hangul, I got a response from public-html-ig-ko@w3.org:

When using vertical flow with Hangul characters, it should be rendered upright. We rarely use vertical flow in texts now a days, but when vertical flow is used in texts it should be rendered upright. Also, it is read from top to bottom, right to left.

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-ig-ko/2011Oct/0001.html



-----Original Message-----
From: www-style-request@w3.org [mailto:www-style-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of fantasai
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 8:37 AM
To: www-style@w3.org
Subject: Re: Strawman proposal for UTR #50: Unicode Properties for Vertical Text Layout

On 10/04/2011 08:05 AM, Eric Muller wrote:
>
> Yi: apparently, there is essentially no tradition of vertical writing.

Yi is traditionally a vertical script, so this is totally false. :)

Here are some examples of Yi, intermixed with Chinese so you can be sure of the orientation:
   http://fantasai.inkedblade.net/style/scans/LoC008.png

   http://fantasai.inkedblade.net/style/scans/LoC011.png


The modern Yi script that is encoded in Unicode is used horizontally, and it does appear to be derived as a rotation, not translation, of the original vertical characters. So it would be logical to rotate it. But when I was digging around the National Library of China I do remember concluding that it should be translated, not rotated; probably due to the influence of Chinese typesetting and their bias against rotation. Here is a scan showing figure captions in vertical Yi:
   http://fantasai.inkedblade.net/style/scans/LoC068.png

Notice they are translated (i.e. upright), not rotated.

So unless you actually have done some research on this topic and come to a different conclusion (please present the evidence), I would suggest you copy
CSS3 Writing Modes Appendix B.

> Hangul: It seems that in modern use, Hangul is written horizontally, 
> with a Western-style typography (western punctuation, which is 
> proportional, etc). Of course, there is occasional vertical writing, 
> just like in English, but that's out of scope for UTR50. There was a 
> tradition with an East-Asian style (vertical, etc), but the most 
> recent evidence I have found is from the 1930s.

I'd wager a lot of money that Hangul does not rotate when presented in East Asian context. Absent a lot of money, here's something apparently printed in 1992, found via Google search in 2 minutes:
   http://www.hendrick-hamel.henny-savenije.pe.kr/newspaper/pages/article_jpg.htm


I'm kindof annoyed that you are making random information up. If you don't feel like doing the research, mark it as an issue for further research. Or ask someone who knows about the topic. Or at least copy CSS3.

~fantasai

Received on Tuesday, 4 October 2011 23:57:22 GMT

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