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Re: @font-face and slow downloading

From: David Singer <singer@apple.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 17:17:35 -0800
Cc: John Daggett <jdaggett@mozilla.com>, www-style list <www-style@w3.org>
Message-Id: <202D8EDE-1678-402C-927A-26C3803AD17C@apple.com>
To: Yuzo Fujishima <yuzo@google.com>

On Jan 6, 2011, at 17:13 , Yuzo Fujishima wrote:

> Hi, David,
> 
> I thought it was implied by the sentence beginning as "It is recommended to the document author that the fallback font(s) have as similar ...".
> 
> That said, I don't have any strong reasons against adding it back, as far as it is a "should" requirement.
> Fallback is not something absolutely necessary, in my opinion.

OK, understood.  The question then arises ... what does the UA do if the style-sheet author doesn't give enough fallback? (None at all, or to 'local' fonts which don't exist).  I guess the same as today...the UA tries to find a suitable font, and finally gives up by displaying an unavailable-glyph symbol?

> 
> Yuzo
> 
> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:32 AM, David Singer <singer@apple.com> wrote:
> Yuzo
> 
> I notice that you omitted the suggestion/requirement on the author: "when a downloaded font is used in a stylesheet, a local fallback font must (should?) also be specified, " -- was this because you feel it's implied by the permitted UA behavior, or...?
> 
> On Jan 5, 2011, at 17:31 , Yuzo Fujishima wrote:
> 
>> John and other CSS Font people,
>> 
>> Can you update me on the status of the standardization for web font tentative drawing behavior?
>> What is the ETA?
>> 
>> Yuzo
>>  
>> 
>> On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Yuzo Fujishima <yuzo@google.com> wrote:
>> I'd propose that we first agree on
>>   Q1. whether the tentative drawing behavior is at UA's discretion or not
>> and then on
>>   Q2. how the spec wording should be.
>> 
>> As to Q1, I think it must be at UA's discretion (rather than document authors').
>> 
>> Rationale:
>> 1. Through the discussion so far, it seems to be very difficult to find a
>> common ground with that everyone is reasonably happy. Hence mandating
>> a behavior doesn't look reasonable.
>> 2. Allowing authors to control this tentative and transitional behavior
>> seems to be an overcommitment for me, especially as a browser developer.
>> 
>> As to Q2, I'd propose the following, deriving from David's:
>> 
>> "when a downloadable font is used in a stylesheet, UA may, after waiting for download completion as long as it wants,
>> first use the fallback font for rendering as if all downloading have failed and then use the downloadable font
>> when the download completes.
>> It is recommended to the document author that the fallback font(s) have 'as similar metrics as possible'
>> to the downloadable font, so that, if the page is first rendered with a fallback and later with the downloadable font,
>> the degree of visual change, re-layout etc., is as small as possible."
>> 
>> Yuzo
>> 
>> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 3:50 AM, David Singer <singer@apple.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On Oct 22, 2010, at 0:22 , Yuzo Fujishima wrote:
>> 
>> >
>> > Hi, David,
>> >
>> > Sorry if I was unclear.
>> >
>> > I think the temporary substitute and the permanent fallback should be the same if possible.
>> >
>> > Put differently, I think the temporary substitute should be the same font as the font that
>> > is used when all downloads failed.
>> >
>> > Yuzo
>> 
>> Hi, no problem.  We already have syntax for fallback, so we can document that it can also be used as a 'temporary' substitute (with no formal definition of how long temporary can be).
>> 
>> So, should the specification say that "when a downloaded font is used in a stylesheet, a local fallback font must (should?) also be specified, and that the fallback font may be used by the UA when/while the downloaded font is unavailable.  It is (strongly?) recommended that the fallback font(s) have 'as similar metrics as possible' to the downloaded font, so that, if the page is first rendered with a fallback and later with the downloaded font, the degree of visual change, re-layout etc., is as small as possible."
>> 
>> David Singer
>> Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> David Singer
> Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.
> 
> 

David Singer
Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.
Received on Friday, 7 January 2011 01:18:39 GMT

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