Re: @font-face and slow downloading

Hi, David,

I thought it was implied by the sentence beginning as "It is recommended to
the document author that the fallback font(s) have as similar ...".

That said, I don't have any strong reasons against adding it back, as far as
it is a "should" requirement.
Fallback is not something absolutely necessary, in my opinion.

Yuzo

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:32 AM, David Singer <singer@apple.com> wrote:

> Yuzo

> I notice that you omitted the suggestion/requirement on the author: "when  
> a
> downloaded font is used in a stylesheet, a local fallback font must
> (should?) also be specified, " -- was this because you feel it's implied  
> by
> the permitted UA behavior, or...?

> On Jan 5, 2011, at 17:31 , Yuzo Fujishima wrote:

> John and other CSS Font people,

> Can you update me on the status of the standardization for web font
> tentative drawing behavior?
> What is the ETA?

> Yuzo


> On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Yuzo Fujishima <yuzo@google.com> wrote:

>> I'd propose that we first agree on
>>    Q1. whether the tentative drawing behavior is at UA's discretion or not
>> and then on
>>    Q2. how the spec wording should be.

>> As to Q1, I think it must be at UA's discretion (rather than document
>> authors').

>> Rationale:
>> 1. Through the discussion so far, it seems to be very difficult to find a
>> common ground with that everyone is reasonably happy. Hence mandating
>> a behavior doesn't look reasonable.
>> 2. Allowing authors to control this tentative and transitional behavior
>> seems to be an overcommitment for me, especially as a browser developer.

>> As to Q2, I'd propose the following, deriving from David's:

>> "when a downloadable font is used in a stylesheet, UA may, after waiting
>> for download completion as long as it wants,
>> first use the fallback font for rendering as if all downloading have
>> failed and then use the downloadable font
>> when the download completes.
>> It is recommended to the document author that the fallback font(s) have
>> 'as similar metrics as possible'
>> to the downloadable font, so that, if the page is first rendered with a
>> fallback and later with the downloadable font,
>>   the degree of visual change, re-layout etc., is as small as possible."

>> Yuzo

>> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 3:50 AM, David Singer <singer@apple.com> wrote:


>>> On Oct 22, 2010, at 0:22 , Yuzo Fujishima wrote:

>>> >
>>> > Hi, David,
>>> >
>>> > Sorry if I was unclear.
>>> >
>>> > I think the temporary substitute and the permanent fallback should be
>>> the same if possible.
>>> >
>>> > Put differently, I think the temporary substitute should be the same
>>> font as the font that
>>> > is used when all downloads failed.
>>> >
>>> > Yuzo

>>> Hi, no problem.  We already have syntax for fallback, so we can document
>>> that it can also be used as a 'temporary' substitute (with no formal
>>> definition of how long temporary can be).

>>> So, should the specification say that "when a downloaded font is used in
>>> a stylesheet, a local fallback font must (should?) also be specified,  
>>> and
>>> that the fallback font may be used by the UA when/while the downloaded  
>>> font
>>> is unavailable.  It is (strongly?) recommended that the fallback font(s)
>>> have 'as similar metrics as possible' to the downloaded font, so that,  
>>> if
>>> the page is first rendered with a fallback and later with the downloaded
>>> font, the degree of visual change, re-layout etc., is as small as  
>>> possible."

>>> David Singer
>>> Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.




>   David Singer
> Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.