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Re: @font-face and slow downloading

From: Yuzo Fujishima <yuzo@google.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 10:27:52 +0900
Message-ID: <AANLkTik=_26ddBjOFEp9UuxH19kLPfDgFEeDCnz2Ohww@mail.gmail.com>
To: David Singer <singer@apple.com>
Cc: John Daggett <jdaggett@mozilla.com>, www-style list <www-style@w3.org>
Hi, David,

I think in that case the so-called last resort font would be used,
just as when the document author specifies non-existent font with
ordinary (i.e., non- @font-face) font-family property.

If the last resort font doesn't have necessary glyphs, the unavailable-glyph
symbol may be shown. (But I think most of the last resort fonts have
fairly wide coverage.)

Yuzo

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 10:17 AM, David Singer <singer@apple.com> wrote:


> On Jan 6, 2011, at 17:13 , Yuzo Fujishima wrote:

> Hi, David,

> I thought it was implied by the sentence beginning as "It is recommended  
> to
> the document author that the fallback font(s) have as similar ...".

> That said, I don't have any strong reasons against adding it back, as far
> as it is a "should" requirement.
> Fallback is not something absolutely necessary, in my opinion.


> OK, understood.  The question then arises ... what does the UA do if the
> style-sheet author doesn't give enough fallback? (None at all, or  
> to 'local'
> fonts which don't exist).  I guess the same as today...the UA tries to  
> find
> a suitable font, and finally gives up by displaying an unavailable-glyph
> symbol?


> Yuzo

> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:32 AM, David Singer <singer@apple.com> wrote:

>> Yuzo

>> I notice that you omitted the suggestion/requirement on the author: "when
>> a downloaded font is used in a stylesheet, a local fallback font must
>> (should?) also be specified, " -- was this because you feel it's implied  
>> by
>> the permitted UA behavior, or...?

>> On Jan 5, 2011, at 17:31 , Yuzo Fujishima wrote:

>> John and other CSS Font people,

>> Can you update me on the status of the standardization for web font
>> tentative drawing behavior?
>> What is the ETA?

>> Yuzo


>> On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Yuzo Fujishima <yuzo@google.com> wrote:

>>> I'd propose that we first agree on
>>>    Q1. whether the tentative drawing behavior is at UA's discretion or  
>>> not
>>> and then on
>>>    Q2. how the spec wording should be.

>>> As to Q1, I think it must be at UA's discretion (rather than document
>>> authors').

>>> Rationale:
>>> 1. Through the discussion so far, it seems to be very difficult to find  
>>> a
>>> common ground with that everyone is reasonably happy. Hence mandating
>>> a behavior doesn't look reasonable.
>>> 2. Allowing authors to control this tentative and transitional behavior
>>> seems to be an overcommitment for me, especially as a browser developer.

>>> As to Q2, I'd propose the following, deriving from David's:

>>> "when a downloadable font is used in a stylesheet, UA may, after waiting
>>> for download completion as long as it wants,
>>> first use the fallback font for rendering as if all downloading have
>>> failed and then use the downloadable font
>>> when the download completes.
>>> It is recommended to the document author that the fallback font(s) have
>>> 'as similar metrics as possible'
>>> to the downloadable font, so that, if the page is first rendered with a
>>> fallback and later with the downloadable font,
>>>   the degree of visual change, re-layout etc., is as small as possible."

>>> Yuzo

>>> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 3:50 AM, David Singer <singer@apple.com> wrote:


>>>> On Oct 22, 2010, at 0:22 , Yuzo Fujishima wrote:

>>>> >
>>>> > Hi, David,
>>>> >
>>>> > Sorry if I was unclear.
>>>> >
>>>> > I think the temporary substitute and the permanent fallback should be
>>>> the same if possible.
>>>> >
>>>> > Put differently, I think the temporary substitute should be the same
>>>> font as the font that
>>>> > is used when all downloads failed.
>>>> >
>>>> > Yuzo

>>>> Hi, no problem.  We already have syntax for fallback, so we can  
>>>> document
>>>> that it can also be used as a 'temporary' substitute (with no formal
>>>> definition of how long temporary can be).

>>>> So, should the specification say that "when a downloaded font is used  
>>>> in
>>>> a stylesheet, a local fallback font must (should?) also be specified,  
>>>> and
>>>> that the fallback font may be used by the UA when/while the downloaded  
>>>> font
>>>> is unavailable.  It is (strongly?) recommended that the fallback  
>>>> font(s)
>>>> have 'as similar metrics as possible' to the downloaded font, so that,  
>>>> if
>>>> the page is first rendered with a fallback and later with the  
>>>> downloaded
>>>> font, the degree of visual change, re-layout etc., is as small as  
>>>> possible."

>>>> David Singer
>>>> Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.




>>   David Singer
>> Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.



>   David Singer
> Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.
Received on Friday, 7 January 2011 01:35:58 GMT

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