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Re: Revising text wrapping, line breaking, and white space properties in CSS3 (CSS3 Text: 6 and 7)

From: by way of Bert Bos <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:17:01 -0700
To: www-style@w3.org
Message-Id: <200410310117.01768.fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>


Richard Ishida wrote:
>Fantasai wrote:
>>Proposed:
>>   word-break: keep-all | strict | normal | break-all
>>
>>Justification:
>>   Practically-speaking, there's only one scale of strictness.
>>                   strictest <----------------------> loosest
>>   line-break     | irrelevant | strict | normal | normal    |
>>   word-break-cjk | keep-all   | normal | normal | break-all |
>>
>>   * normal vs. strict line-breaking is irrelevant when keep-all
>> takes effect. * The combination of strict and break-all makes little
>> sense. (Why would you allow breaks in scripts like Latin, where
>> breaking words in random places is wrong, but disallow breaks before
>> small kana, where breaking is merely discouraged?)
>
> I disagree with your recommendations here. I don't see there being
> one scale of strictness at all, and think that your approach is too
> biased towards the Western view.

...

> The word-break-cjk alternatives are not a question of scale of
> breakability in my mind. It relates to the application of character
> vs word wrapping paradigms to runs of CJK vs non-CJK text...
> The effects of the line-break property are a different issue, not
> part of the same scale of breakability: Where CJK text breaks on a
> character basis, do we apply the kinsoku/geumchik/other rules, and if
> so, to what extent... It's just that such rules don't apply to the
> non-CJK, because they are based on specific Asian characters.

Do the line-break and word-break-cjk properties need to cascade
 independently or is this redefinition of 'word-break' sufficient?

    Property    ||              Equivalent to

  word-break    ||      line-break     word-break-cjk
===============||=======================================
  keep-all      ||          -          keep-all
  normal        ||        strict       normal
  loose         ||        normal       normal
  break-strict  ||        strict       break-all
  break-all     ||        normal       break-all

> I *do* have the following issues with the current CSS text:

...

> [2] re line-break: Kinsoku rules cover much more than just splitting
> small kana.  I don't think this is clearly described in the text. 
> Nor is it clear that this is applicable to Chinese and Korean text,
> as well as Japanese. Nor that the kana question is not relevant in
> Chinese or Korean text.

If you could provide some pointers to information on line breaking
 rules for any of these languages, I will do my best to add details to
 the spec. I've tried looking, but much of the literature is in
 Japanese, which I unfortunately can't read. (My Chinese isn't up to
 the task, either, but I could handle French if necessary...)

> [3] I think there ought to be a third alternative for line-break:
> none.  This would turn off line breaking restrictions.  There are
> occasions where I might want to do that.

This can be done with the text-wrapping properties. 'word-break'
 defines the "word" (wrt line breaking) boundaries, and 'text-wrap'
 indicates whether to respect the word boundaries when wrapping lines.

> [4] I think it would be easier to understand the properties on an
> initial read if word-break-cjk was introduced before line-break,
> since that provides a more top-down approach. I also think that
> line-break is to cjk what word-break-inside is to some non-CJK
> scripts, so it makes sense to explain those alongside each other.

Ok, I'll remember to invert the order.

~fantasai

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Received on Sunday, 31 October 2004 08:17:34 GMT

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