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Re: [css4-text] 'text-autospace' and French guillemets

From: Etan Wexler <ewexler@stickdog.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:33:39 -0700
To: www-style@w3.org
Message-Id: <40321C8D-EA2A-11D8-AE32-000502CB1B77@stickdog.com>

Alexander Savenkov wrote to <mailto:www-style@w3.org> on 9 August 2004 
in "Re[2]: [css4-text] 'text-autospace' and French guillemets" 
(<mid:1217070296.20040809143008@xmlhack.ru>):

> For every paragraph sign, for every mathematical sign, for every
> metrical abbreviation, for many-many others. The characters that seem
> obscure to you are correctly referred to as legal Unicode characters.

Being legal Unicode characters does not necessarily raise them out of 
obscurity. By my reckoning, Unicode contains dozens if not hundreds of 
obscure characters. A thorough repertoire is, after all, the very job 
of the Unicode Standard.

I'll grant that the thin space is familiar (not obscure) to readers of 
French. But a formatting code like word joiner? I strongly suspect that 
it is unknown to an overwhelming majority of literate people.

>> If that was an argument, I have yet again failed to understand.
>> Certainly, when one avoids tagging and instead uses data characters or
>> character references, the issue is at the level of plain text.
>
> Why the sarcastic tone?

No sarcasm was intended.

I genuinely failed to understand your argument. To me it seemed like 
you were saying, "If you stay away from markup, you're not dealing with 
markup." That's true, but obvious. So I assumed that there was another 
point that you were making. I gather that your point was, "It 
*shouldn't be* in the markup."

> <sentence>certainly, when one avoids the use of non-ASCII characters 
> and
> instead marks everything up, all the issues are gone</sentence>
>
> sentence::first-letter { text-transform: uppercase; }
> sentence::after { content: "."; }

I've considered these scenarios. And, at the risk of appearing a 
super-geek, I admit that they appeal to me. But I don't wish to follow 
this theme here and now. I think that another forum, and perhaps 
another time, would be better for discussion of these matters.

>>> Exactly, what space is put between the text and the quote marks in
>>> France?
>
>> I don't know. Some person at the French Academy probably knows.
>> (Contact information is at
>> <http://www.academie-francaise.fr/contact/index.html>.)
>
> I thought you were looking for help.

I was. And am. That's why I want some knowledgeable person to *tell me* 
what space is to be used.

> Instead, you’re sending me to some page to find the contact.

I'm not sending you, specifically. I do not speak, read, or write 
French, so I am incapable. I was hoping that somebody would volunteer 
to make contact. If you wanted to do so, that would be great. But I was 
betting on Daniel Glazman. He didn't contact the French Academy, but in 
a recent message (<mid:41173EE7.8040503@easyconnect.fr>) corrected my 
leaning to the French Academy and indicated that he was on the problem. 
I have therefore accomplished what I desired.

> Adequate solutions are welcome.

Ah, so we do agree!

-- 
Etan Wexler.
Received on Monday, 9 August 2004 17:35:57 GMT

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