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Re: Standards Compliance and msn

From: Vadim Plessky <plessky@cnt.ru>
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:47:06 +0000
Message-Id: <200110261940.f9QJeTH03004@post.cnt.ru>
To: Zoltan Hawryluk <zhawryluk@corp.attcanada.ca>, "'Chris Wilson'" <cwilso@microsoft.com>, "'www-style@w3.org'" <www-style@w3.org>
On Friday 26 October 2001 17:52, Zoltan Hawryluk wrote:
|   I have to totally agree with Mr. Wilson on this.
|
|   Even though I really don't agree with Microsoft on their strategy on MSN,
| I think it is of *really* bad taste to them (or any other business) with
| the murder of thousands of people when they aren't remotely responsible.
|

Who said that they [MS] were responsible with murders? Zoltan, you just 
mixing things.

Ok, let me clarify my original post a little bit. 
There is a huge cultural difference between US citizens (I believe Chris is 
an US citizen, or at least he is located in US) and Russian citizens. It's 
different mentality, different historical traditions, different perception of 
World problems, etc.
So, while you see WTC tragedy (which is indeed HUGE TRAGEDY) as something 
exceptional, and (for some reason) expect that everyone will agree that this 
was *exceptional* (unbelievable, etc.) - I perceive it in different way.
We had series of explosions in Moscow, where a lot of people died, and world 
was not crying about it (and our president was not saying that "war 
started"). There is a continous, on-going war in Chechen, where Chechen 
terrorists  were killing people for 7+ years - and world was *ignoring* this. 
And our soldiers are killed *every day* in Chechen trying to protect peace 
and stability. (I am speaking not about past, but about current days)
I understand that American people faced such tragedy for the first time. We 
[in Russia] were facing a lot of troubles during last 10 years, time of 
so-called "democtratic reforms", plus 70 years of Soviet regime. That's the 
difference. You have seen once what we are seeing everyday. 
So, it's cultural and mental difference - nothing else.

as about "immaturity" - Chris, I expect you to take these words back.
You haven't seen me, we were never meeting before, and your words just *not 
correct* and *offensive*. We have different mentality and different 
experience but that's not an excuse to ditch me. Especially when I was not 
ditching you (and I don't understand why you moved from *in general* to 
*persons*) 
In any case, to prevent further flaimwar and ditching, 
** I apologize if you were offended by my comparision. **
Anyway, I was not keeping you in mind - I guess that you are in different 
division from MSN, and probably even were not aware about such decision (to 
block other browsers)
I was working in pretty big multinational company, and know quite well how 
one department struggles with another to get boss's attention, next move to 
higher position, etc.
But I also know that such decision (like to block other browsers at MSN.com) 
needs to be approoved by top-level manager.
So I think in this case either Mr.Gates or Mr.Ballmer approoved decision.

I would also appreciate if you can give constructive answers on issues raised 
in my mail and Mr. Dylan Schiemann.

once more: I am not very much interested in "Political Reasons" which caused 
this decision (I know these reasons pretty well)
I am interested in CSS-related issues:
1) looking at site's design (www.msn.com ), it seems Microsoft again uses 
pixel-sized fonts, making text almost unreadable for UserAgent with good dpi 
resolution.
When it will be corrected?

2) why page(s) doesn't (don't) validate(s)? *(msn.com, microsoft.com, etc.) 

If all pages by MS become validated, and coding practice (using px instead of 
pt or mm) is changed, I have nothing to complain about Microsoft, MSN, MSNBC 
sites.
I hope (and strongly believe) that you can ask responsible people in 
Microsoft to validate/rewrite those pages, and this will be *technical* (not 
*political*) decision. So, it can be done even keeping current Microsoft 
strategy to its competitors.   

|   I admit, I am not a huge fan of the company's business practices, and I
| am a big supporter of the Open Source movement, but that does not excuse
| equating the company, or its employees, with the people who were
| responsible for the Sept 11th tragedy.  They are not murderers.
|
|   I think the individual who is responsible for such a comment should
| really rethink the words he used.

It's done.
|
|   Zoltan.
|
|   ------
|   Zoltan Hawryluk, ZH13, ncc0026
|   WebMaster, AT&T Canada IES
|   "Listening is being able to be changed by the other person."
|
|   > -----Original Message-----
|   > From: www-style-request@w3.org [mailto:www-style-request@w3.org]On
|   > Behalf Of Chris Wilson
|   > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 1:30 PM
|   > To: Vadim Plessky; www-style@w3.org
|   > Subject: RE: Standards Compliance and msn
|   >
|   >
|   > If you ever... EVER compare Microsoft to the terrorists who
|   > perpetrated
|   > the tragedies on September 11 again, you are going in my "delete all
|   > mail coming from or to this person automatically" list, and I may well
|   > in fact just resign from this list.  You are so out of line, I cannot
|   > believe I am even bothering to respond to you.  Do not ruin this forum
|   > for the rest of its constituency by your immaturity.
|   >
|   > -Chris Wilson
|   >

-- 

Vadim Plessky
http://kde2.newmail.ru  (English)
33 Window Decorations and 6 Widget Styles for KDE. The Ultimate Theming 
Solution for your KDE.
http://kde2.newmail.ru/kde_themes.html
Do you have Arial font installed? Just test it!
http://kde2.newmail.ru/font_test_arial.html
Received on Friday, 26 October 2001 15:41:15 GMT

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