W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > October 2001

RE: Standards Compliance and msn

From: Zoltan Hawryluk <zhawryluk@corp.attcanada.ca>
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:52:23 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <F991145F3D7AD51187EF00D0B78850D9011710A2@exmailthree.corp.netcom.ca>
To: "'Chris Wilson'" <cwilso@microsoft.com>, "'Vadim Plessky'" <lucy-ples@mtu-net.ru>, "'www-style@w3.org'" <www-style@w3.org>
I have to totally agree with Mr. Wilson on this.

Even though I really don't agree with Microsoft on their strategy on MSN, I
think it is of *really* bad taste to them (or any other business) with the
murder of thousands of people when they aren't remotely responsible.  

I admit, I am not a huge fan of the company's business practices, and I am a
big supporter of the Open Source movement, but that does not excuse equating
the company, or its employees, with the people who were responsible for the
Sept 11th tragedy.  They are not murderers.

I think the individual who is responsible for such a comment should really
rethink the words he used.  


Zoltan Hawryluk, ZH13, ncc0026
WebMaster, AT&T Canada IES
"Listening is being able to be changed by the other person."

> -----Original Message-----
> From: www-style-request@w3.org [mailto:www-style-request@w3.org]On
> Behalf Of Chris Wilson
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 1:30 PM
> To: Vadim Plessky; www-style@w3.org
> Subject: RE: Standards Compliance and msn
> If you ever... EVER compare Microsoft to the terrorists who 
> perpetrated
> the tragedies on September 11 again, you are going in my "delete all
> mail coming from or to this person automatically" list, and I may well
> in fact just resign from this list.  You are so out of line, I cannot
> believe I am even bothering to respond to you.  Do not ruin this forum
> for the rest of its constituency by your immaturity.
> -Chris Wilson
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vadim Plessky [mailto:lucy-pl  Ses@mtu-net.ru] 
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 1:32 PM
> To: Dylan Schiemann; www-style@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Standards Compliance and msn
> On Friday 26 October 2001 03:03, Dylan Schiemann wrote:
> |   Things like this:
> |   http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-7660935.html are
> |   why Tantek and Chris often get such disrespect on this
> |   list.
> |
> |   "But, Visse warned, "the experience may be slightly
> |   degraded simply because they don't support the
> |   standards we support closely, as far as the HTML
> |   standard in those browsers."
> |
> |   Currently, using the most recent browser from
> |   Mozilla.org to reach MSN.com brings a message from
> |   Microsoft saying it has "detected that the browser
> |   that you are using will not render MSN.com correctly."
> |   Mozilla.org does open-source browser development for
> |   AOL Time Warner's Netscape Communications unit.
> |
> Dylan, other subscribers of www-style list:
> I can confrim that I get the same *warning* from Microsoft visiting 
> http://www.msn.com with Opera5/Linux and Konqueror 2.2/KDE.
> Screenshots: http://htmltests.newmail.ru/microsoft/msn_com-konq.png
> http://htmltests.newmail.ru/microsoft/msn_com-opera5lin.png
> But, I was able to *get in* using Konqueror with MS IE 5.0/Win95 User
> Agent
> Screenshot:
> http://htmltests.newmail.ru/microsoft/msn_com-Oct28-Konq22-fak
> e-as-MSIE-
> i.png
> looking at site's design (www.msn.com ), it seems Microsoft 
> again uses 
> pixel-sized fonts, making text almost unreadable for 
> UserAgent with good
> dpi 
> resolution.
> (I have 96dpi setting in XFree86)
> Again, I was able to correct it, using Konqueror's Font 
> Increase feature
> Screenshot:
> http://htmltests.newmail.ru/microsoft/msn_com-Oct28-Konq22-fak
So, Microsoft really underestimated Open-Source software, all their 
aggressive efforts are useless after all ! ;-))

All this is very, *VERY* offensive from Microsoft side.
I just wondering how company listed on NASDAQ can go to market with such

anti-market, anti-marketing, agressive, anti-humanitarian approach. I
can guess that instead of massive browser upgrades, Microsoft will get
jihad against them.
Microsoft is acting here in the same way as terrorists on Sept.11 in
WTC.  Terrorists got their war. Microsoft will get it as well. If I made
it not clear enough: 
"Dear Microsoft managers, there is no way how you can make web and
users your hostages. You will get resistance, you will get negative
from all countries over the world. Stop offend people, stop blaim
software. Only fair competition can make company successful and
                     Vadim Plessky

|   Visse said earlier Thursday that the message would be
|   shown to people using "browsers that we know don't
|   support (W3C) standards or that we can't insure will
|   get a great experience for the customer." W3C refers
|   to the World Wide Web Consortium, which is developing
|   industry standards for Web technologies.
|   "
|   Here's a screenshot of the message:
|   http://www.dylanschiemann.com/images/msnRejectsMozilla.png
|   I'm really curious which standards mozilla and opera
|   supposedly don't support when msn doesn't even
|   validate correctly and is therefore not "standards
|   compliant":
|   http://www.dylanschiemann.com/examples/msnValidation.html
|   I know, this is probably off-topic, but it seemed
|   relevant in light of all the recent discussion about
|   building a fully css compliant browser.
|   -Dylan Schiemann
|   http://www.sitepen.com/
|   http://www.dylanschiemann.com/


Vadim Plessky
http://kde2.newmail.ru  (English)
33 Window Decorations and 6 Widget Styles for KDE
KDE mini-Themes
Received on Friday, 26 October 2001 14:31:39 UTC

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