W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > May 1997

Quote markup

From: David Siegel <dave@verso.com>
Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 19:19:57 -0700
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970505184347.00ca71a4@scooby.verso.com>
To: Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@mail.dol.com>
Cc: www-html@w3.org, www-style@w3.org
I'm sorry about this, but the following thread didn't get sent to the list,
only to peter, so you can read two threads in one...

First I wrote:
>>Peter said:
>>>Quotes marks DO have meaning! They indicate a change of voice. Such a
>>change must be indicated visually in a visual medium, just as they are
>>indicated by a literal change of voice in an oral medium. Display has
>>meaning! A Q tag might also be implemented as an indented paragraph with no
>>quote marks, depending on the length of the quotation.
>
>>I disagree. Quote marks are artifacts. You use them to denote things, but
>>they are not part of the things themselves. A title may be in italics in
>>most situations, but if you have an environment where italics are not good
>>(a low-res screen or character-based display), then you're better off with
>>quotes around your titles. A quote may be rendered in italics without quote
>>marks. A long quote has no quote marks at the end of paragraphs except the
>>last. A literal change of voice may be better in italic than quoted. The
>>list goes on. 
>>	I believe quote marks are not structural or semantic but are part of
>>style. And an important part of style at that. When you want them, you want
>>them to look good, hanging into the margin, not shoving characters over.
-Dave
>

Then Peter wrote:

>Hi, Dave-
>
>As artifacts, wouldn't you say they have meaning? Or are we separating the
meaning of the 'content' from the meaning of the container, in which case
I'd agree that the marks themselves are not part of the content.
>That is, that the quote mark itself is an indicator, which indicates
something which might also be indicated by some other method, including
italics, or indenting, and so forth. As far as hanging points, I completely
agree, of course. The main problem is that there's no HTML for curly quotes!
>
>I'm thinking that a <Q> tag with an appropriate set of properties could
either insert quote marks, or style the content in some other fashion...
(not that I'm arguing for a <q> tag....)

Then I said:

>Hi peter -

I definitely would argue against a <Q> tag, because it's not metadata. I'd
argue for <Title class=movie timeframe=1940s> tag, or a <Title class=play
language=english genre=comedy> tag. If we're going to have metadata, let's
do it right. On the other hand, the <B> tag and <I> tag seem to be with us,
same as they are in Microsoft Word. No one in design uses <EM>. 

David Siegel              415 278-9900 x22     fax 278-9911

S T U D I O   V E R S O   512 2nd Street, San Francisco, CA 94107

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Received on Monday, 5 May 1997 22:21:23 GMT

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