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RE: Text Editor

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:23:13 -0000
To: "'Andre Schappo'" <A.Schappo@lboro.ac.uk>
Cc: <www-international@w3.org>
Message-ID: <005501c9466c$e91e7730$bb5b6590$@org>

> So I can get all the information I need but it is all a bit mind
> numbing working through hex and ascii codes :-)

The other thing you could do, then, is use UniView.  Paste the text into the Cut & Paste input field, and hit return - you will get a vertical list of characters with names and numbers.

http://rishida.net/scripts/uniview/

Just an idea.

RI

============
Richard Ishida
Internationalization Lead
W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)

http://www.w3.org/International/
http://rishida.net/



> -----Original Message-----
> From: www-international-request@w3.org [mailto:www-international-
> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Andre Schappo
> Sent: 11 November 2008 18:00
> To: www-international@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Text Editor
> 
> 
> 
> At the moment, in order to ascertain what is happening with bidi in
> text documents, I use the following techniques :-
> 
> 1.  I use the SIL Unicode BMP fallback font
> <http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=UnicodeBMPFall
> backFont
>  > I switch the text to this font so that I can see exactly what and
> where the unicode bidi control characters are. So in this mode I am
> seeing the "bidi display mode"
> 
> 2. In order to see the "logical display mode"  I view the raw data in
> Unix using hexdump -C
> 
> So I can get all the information I need but it is all a bit mind
> numbing working through hex and ascii codes :-)
> 
> So that it why I raised the idea of the text editor with a "bidi on/
> off toggle"
> 
> André
> 
> On 11 Nov 2008, at 17:27, Najib Tounsi wrote:
> 
> >
> > Martin Duerst wrote:
> >> At 23:19 08/11/09, Andre Schappo wrote:
> >>
> >>> I am new to this list so apologies if I initially go over old
> >>> ground.
> >>>
> >>> I have just been reading <http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-bidi-
> controls
> >>> > and have experimented with both unicode and html methods of
> >>> controlling directionality.
> >>>
> >>> What I would really like is a Text Editor that I can toggle
> >>> between  "bidi display mode" and "logical display mode"
> >>>
> >>> By "logical display mode" I mean that the editor shows the raw
> >>> underlying characters ie the order they were typed in
> >>>
> >>> By "bidi display mode" I mean displaying the final form after
> >>> application of the direction directives/"character properties".
> >>>
> >>> Anyone know of such a Text Editor ?? I am using Leopard on an
> >>> Apple Mac.
> >>>
> >>> I have already tried several editors and also gone down to the
> >>> Unix  level (pico & vi) but none provide both display modes.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Your "logical display mode" would mean that e.g. Arabic and Hebrew
> >> are written left-to-right, which would simply be unreadable.
> > It depends on what you want to do (and for whom?). Sometime it is
> > easier to fix small portions of bidi-text (e.g. add/delete
> > punctuations) by looking directly at the logical order. There are
> > other use cases. That's why I share Andre Schappo's concern. I
> > remember I once asked if a composer like Mozilla/NVU could offer
> > another mode (in addition to HTML / Wysiwyg modes)  to "toggle
> > between 'bidi display mode' and 'logical display mode'", at least in
> > HTML-source mode.
> > The implication of such "logical display mode" is, for Arabic, that
> > the letters shouldn't join (which could contribute to the
> > unreadability you mention).
> >> So that
> >> would be my explanation for why such an editor doesn't exist.
> >> It may be possible to find an editor that essentially does
> >> "logical display" by simply using an editor that doesn't do
> >> any bidi processing. But even editors that don't do any bidi
> >> processing these days may end up with some kind of poor bidi
> >> display, because of the way they use an underlying (OS or
> >> window system) rendering engine.
> >>
> >
> > Yes, that is also an obstacle.
> >
> > Regards, Najib
> >> For a somewhat different approach on how to edit bidi html
> >> and xml, please have a look at
> >> http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp/2005/pub/IUC28-bidi/ and
> >> http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp/2008/pub/IUC32-bidi/.
> >> Comments and questions welcome.
> >>
> >> Regards,   Martin.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> #-#-#  Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University
> >> #-#-#  http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp       mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
Received on Friday, 14 November 2008 15:23:24 GMT

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