W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-html@w3.org > April 2003

Re: Object and New Insert Code Element

From: Etan Wexler <ewexler@stickdog.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 02:54:34 -0700
To: Arthur Wiebe <webmaster@awiebe.com>, www-html@w3.org
Message-id: <BABA75EF.D95%ewexler@stickdog.com>

Arthur Wiebe wrote to <mailto:www-html@w3.org> on 9 April 2003 in "Object
and New Insert Code Element" (<mid:3E94AD95.3030305@awiebe.com>):

> I've been trying for the longest time to insert code from an external
> file onto another page for a long time. Using <object> does not work to
> good. SSI is not supported and I even tried Flash.

It's not clear what you want to do. Are you trying to reference and embed a
distinct resource or integrate content into the document proper? Do you
care?

And have you thought about discussing server shortcomings with your system
administrator? That seems the logical first step to me.

> I say one thing XHTML 2 desperately needs is a new element called
> insert. We would use it sort of like object except this would be for
> inserting code, (not images or applications!) from an external file
> source. This is something myself and many others NEED.

What makes you think that 'object' is not for embedding textual code? What
makes you think that user agent designers will be any quicker in
implementing your proposal than implementing the existing 'object' element
type?

> It would be so fun to be able to do this.
> 
> <insert data-"http://domain.com/directory/filename.ext"
> type-"application/xhtml+xml"/> or
> <insert data-"http://domain.com/directory/filename.ext"
> type-"application/xhtml+xml">Your browser does not support XHTML 2.0.
> Sorry.</insert>

This is wrong, and on so many levels. At the most elementary, you need
well-formedness; replace each hyphen-minus ("-", U+002D) with an equals sign
("=", U+003D). Don't think of HTTP as a file system; it is not. Your
ostensible help and information for the user is both rude and liable to be
incorrect. There are many reasons why a user agent might not retrieve and
embed the referenced resource, ranging from network congestion to user
configuration. The content should be effective alternative text. The Web
Accessibility Initiative has plenty of guiding material freely available on
the matter. [TOO-LAZY-FOR-PROPER-REFERENCE]

The 'insert' element type proposal needs far more justification if it is to
proceed.

-- 
Etan Wexler <mailto:ewexler@stickdog.com>
Received on Thursday, 10 April 2003 05:54:55 GMT

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