Re: HTML4.0 draft: comments re: inclusion of frames (fwd)

Liam Quinn (
Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:26:21 -0400

Message-Id: <>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:26:21 -0400
To: Jordan Reiter <>
From: Liam Quinn <>
In-Reply-To: <l03110701b03cbfe1fc5e@[]>
Subject: Re: HTML4.0 draft: comments re: inclusion of frames (fwd)


At 04:32 PM 10/09/97 -0500, Jordan Reiter wrote:
>The web has become a visual medium.

If that's all it is then we're not realizing the Web's full potential; the 
Web can be much more than a visual medium.  The W3C has been very active 
in promoting the idea that the Web is more than a visual medium, but 
presentational features like Netscape's frames propagate the myth that the 
Web is purely visual.

>It's too late for the purists
>to do much about it except close off into their own pretty little shell 
>create their own perfect little standards.

HTML 4.0 clearly signals an intention to separate presentation from 
content, which means that it's not "too late" to stop the Web's slide into 
a visual wasteland.  The fight against Netscape's frames is part of the 
fight against a purely visual medium, but I think most people recognize 
that standardization of Netscape's frames is inevitable given their 
widespread use.  Hopefully in the future the W3C will push for deprecation 
of Netscape's frames and offer alternatives (e.g., based on the LINK 
element and CSS).

>But if they do this, and
>organizations like W3C don't keep some kind of determination over a HTML
>standard, then THERE WILL BE NO STANDARD for the 90% of sites that want 
>use the more recent elements.

90% of sites don't care about standards.

>It's not enough that W3C has deprecated such elements as <FONT> and even
>well established (2.0, no less) elements such as <I>,<B>, favor 

B and I have not been deprecated in HTML 4.0 [1].

>No!  Still this group of coders, who believe faithfully in either the
>virginal beauty of HTML 2.0, or the utopian promise of 3.0, refuse to let
>go of the past.

It's called working towards a better future by learning from the mistakes 
of the past.


Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv


Liam Quinn
===============  ===============
Web Design Group            Enhanced Designs, Web Site Development
======  PGP Key at  =====