Re: space

Abigail (abigail@ny.fnx.com)
Sat, 28 Sep 1996 16:08:37 -0400 (EDT)


Message-Id: <199609282008.QAA12677@melgor.ny.fnx.com>
Subject: Re: space
To: www-html@w3.org
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 16:08:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Abigail" <abigail@ny.fnx.com>
In-Reply-To: <199609221929.OAA24830@inet.htcnet.com> from "Carl Morris" at Sep 22, 96 02:25:43 pm

Carl Morris wrote:
++ 
++ | > Formally, in the English language there are situations apon which
++ extra
++ | > space is inserted between items.  Some examples include the two
++ space
++ | > after a period ending a sentence and the two spaces between the
++ state
++ | > and zip code in an address.  Do people suggest this extra space be
++ | > maintained in HTML documents and how do people propose to do it?
++ | 
++ | The "language" has no such needs; those are just old typewriter
++ | conventions that have no place in typeset text, and an HTML doc
++ | is typeset text.  The spacing after a sentence or before a ZIP
++ | code is entirely up to the browser/style sheet.
++ 
++ No, not quite...  The renderer can't make any decisions on this matter,
++ "insufficient information".. including two spaces in the HTML source is
++ not a very good hint...

But you can use:
<SPAN CLASS = "US-ZIP">New York 10110</SPAN>
and use a style sheet.

Or you use:
<PRE>New York  10110</PRE>

++ | If, for some reason, you want to force the issue rather than
++ | letting the renderer make those decisions, you can certainly
++ | tell the browser your intentions with &nbsp;s or <span>s with
++ | an appropriate style.  But as you point out, browsers vary in
++ | their ability to take a hint.  In the long run, you might as
++ | well leave the text alone to preserve the integrity of the data,
++ | and trust that over time, browsers will come to display it most
++ | appropriately for their environment.
++ 
++ No, that will NEVER happen...  There is not a single chance that any
++ browser will ever display "typeset" text without being told where to do
++ this at...  I have to argue that LYNX's way of taking the hint is not
++ very good, and the NBSP way of hinting at it is again not very good...
++ maybe some new tags need to be brought out into existance?
++ 
++ <SENTENCE>This is a sentence.<SENTENCE>A this is another...
++ 
++ Anyway, I think the point stands ... "hinting" is not a good idea ...
++ while I can't stress it as a requirement, something that litterally
++ denotes that a larger space should be made would be more appropriate...
++  HTML 3.0 supposedly had something like this...

You don't need a <SENTENCE> element. It isn't that hard to use some
extra spacing after the period ending a sentence. Let browser authors
look at the code Knuth is using in TeX; it is only occasionally where
TeX does it wrong. For such exceptions, one can use a style sheet to
correct the spacing.

++ And I don't know about you, but my english teacher would have flunked
++ me for not including two space between sentences in any typed or
++ electronic written work...  Seems to me its a requirement! :( (he'd
++ also require double spacing and etc...)

It's not a requirement, but a convention which seems to be US-based.
Usually, the intrasentence space is a little wider than the intraword
space (though in justified text, those spaces are _flexible_), but it
is a lot less than twice as much. Using two spaces isn't "right"
either; it just "rounds up" the other way.



Abigail