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Re: tree view in xforms

From: Stefano Debenedetti <ste@demaledetti.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:10:58 +0100
Message-ID: <422601B2.50908@demaledetti.net>
To: www-forms@w3.org

Hello Mark,

Mark Birbeck ha scritto:
> Stefano,
> 
> Whilst it's not impossible to define a tree view that will work on (for
> example) both a voice system and on a screen, it's not as easy as people
> think. As you say, it's easier to define a tree view for a GUI-based system,

Both Vodafone and Enel (power supply company in Italy), just to mention two but I am sure there are many others, provide voice interfaces to their customers and non via telephone. 

Those interfaces seem to deal with tree-like navigation menus pretty well.

Could you please elaborate a little more on what the specific problems are?

Do GUI-based systems, for which such a requirement is considered so obvious, trivial and granted, need to wait until the multimodal issues are solved? Is this what multimodal means? I thought it meant "generic enough so that it doesn't really matter how you render/implement it thus allowing you to get away with it just fine even without knowing in advance what the actual UI will be".

But then again I agree this is not so easy to integrate with the existing XForms spec.

> but as you know XForms is about multimodal user interfaces, so we really do
> need to get this right.

It is great news to me to hear that the WG is working on it as this doesn't seem to be among the XForms 1.1 requirements.

Is it? Can you say if it will be for 2.0 or 1.2?

> I couldn't say whether this is where the solution will eventually come from,
> but interestingly, coping with the recursive nature of such trees becomes
> easier when using XBL.

It would be very interesting and useful to see some examples or further elaboration about this.

Thanks, ciao
ste

> Regards,
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> Mark Birbeck
> CEO
> x-port.net Ltd.
> 
> e: Mark.Birbeck@x-port.net
> t: +44 (0) 20 7689 9232
> w: http://www.formsPlayer.com/
> b: http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/
> 
> Download our XForms processor from
> http://www.formsPlayer.com/ 
> 
> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: www-forms-request@w3.org 
>>[mailto:www-forms-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Stefano Debenedetti
>>Sent: 02 March 2005 07:22
>>To: www-forms@w3.org
>>Subject: Re: tree view in xforms
>>
>>
>>It's currently not possible due to the use of ID-typed 
>>attributes on case and repeat constructs.
>>
>>It is one of the most sorely missing features, actually *the* 
>>missing feature in XForms IMHO.
>>
>>Now that XForms 1.1 allows for arbitrary creation of nodes 
>>anywhere in the instance, maybe this could be solved by 
>>making use of the src attribute in a way that controls which 
>>are bound to deepely nested instance nodes that are not there 
>>when the form is initially loaded are instantiated lazily and 
>>only when needed.
>>
>>Then the problem with switches could be solved by using a 
>>NMTOKEN instead of an ID on case and limiting its scope to 
>>the nearmost  switch element it appears in. It would probably 
>>introduce some incompatibility though because you would need 
>>a different attribute for it (name?).
>>
>>The problem is even worse with repeats, whose ID can appear 
>>in XPath expressions and I don't think it would be easily 
>>doable, nor it would make sense, to limit their scope in a 
>>similar way.
>>
>>Thank you for asking this, I hope a solution to this problem 
>>makes it in XForms 1.1 but that's probably wishful thinking.
>>
>>Again: not having an easy way to do arbitrarily nested 
>>collapsable trees in XForms when being tree-like is one of 
>>the most obvious and evident features of XML (and of websites 
>>too) is a big problem, even the plain old default IE 
>>stylesheet for XML can do that and people have found it so 
>>useful that it has implemented in similar ways thousands of 
>>times, including in mozilla.
>>
>>When I say this to potential customers and users of XForms 
>>they look at me like if it was impossible to believe, and I 
>>understand them: when I found out this was impossible I lost 
>>a big part of my XForms enthusiasm myself, which is still 
>>pretty big but that was simply huge before I realized that.
>>
>>ciao
>>ste
>>
>>Pierre-Alexandre ha scritto:
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>I'm trying to make a tree view in xforms. I suppose that i 
>>
>>must load 
>>
>>>all the tree in the dynamic data and use the 
>>
>>xforms:switch,xforms:case
>>
>>>But it seems to me that this will be a bit complicated if 
>>
>>the tree is 
>>
>>>becoming more and more big.
>>>
>>>Is there a simple way to create tree view in xforms ?
>>>Is anyone as tried to do it?
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>Pierre-Alexandre
>>>
>>>
>>>	
>>>
>>>	
>>>		
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>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
Received on Wednesday, 2 March 2005 18:08:04 GMT

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