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Re: tree view in xforms

From: Pierre-Alexandre <secam2004@yahoo.fr>
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 09:00:38 +0100 (CET)
Message-ID: <20050303080038.16971.qmail@web25404.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
To: www-forms@w3.org

Thanks for this explanations,

I am a bit disapointed. I was thinking that xforms
will be able to do tree view.
I enjoy that the WG works on it.
Can you explain what XBL is and suppose to do ?
Is XBL will be a part of xforms ?

Pierre-Alexandre

 --- Stefano Debenedetti <ste@demaledetti.net> a écrit
: 
> 
> Hello Mark,
> 
> Mark Birbeck ha scritto:
> > Stefano,
> > 
> > Whilst it's not impossible to define a tree view
> that will work on (for
> > example) both a voice system and on a screen, it's
> not as easy as people
> > think. As you say, it's easier to define a tree
> view for a GUI-based system,
> 
> Both Vodafone and Enel (power supply company in
> Italy), just to mention two but I am sure there are
> many others, provide voice interfaces to their
> customers and non via telephone. 
> 
> Those interfaces seem to deal with tree-like
> navigation menus pretty well.
> 
> Could you please elaborate a little more on what the
> specific problems are?
> 
> Do GUI-based systems, for which such a requirement
> is considered so obvious, trivial and granted, need
> to wait until the multimodal issues are solved? Is
> this what multimodal means? I thought it meant
> "generic enough so that it doesn't really matter how
> you render/implement it thus allowing you to get
> away with it just fine even without knowing in
> advance what the actual UI will be".
> 
> But then again I agree this is not so easy to
> integrate with the existing XForms spec.
> 
> > but as you know XForms is about multimodal user
> interfaces, so we really do
> > need to get this right.
> 
> It is great news to me to hear that the WG is
> working on it as this doesn't seem to be among the
> XForms 1.1 requirements.
> 
> Is it? Can you say if it will be for 2.0 or 1.2?
> 
> > I couldn't say whether this is where the solution
> will eventually come from,
> > but interestingly, coping with the recursive
> nature of such trees becomes
> > easier when using XBL.
> 
> It would be very interesting and useful to see some
> examples or further elaboration about this.
> 
> Thanks, ciao
> ste
> 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Mark
> > 
> > 
> > Mark Birbeck
> > CEO
> > x-port.net Ltd.
> > 
> > e: Mark.Birbeck@x-port.net
> > t: +44 (0) 20 7689 9232
> > w: http://www.formsPlayer.com/
> > b: http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/
> > 
> > Download our XForms processor from
> > http://www.formsPlayer.com/ 
> > 
> > 
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: www-forms-request@w3.org 
> >>[mailto:www-forms-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of
> Stefano Debenedetti
> >>Sent: 02 March 2005 07:22
> >>To: www-forms@w3.org
> >>Subject: Re: tree view in xforms
> >>
> >>
> >>It's currently not possible due to the use of
> ID-typed 
> >>attributes on case and repeat constructs.
> >>
> >>It is one of the most sorely missing features,
> actually *the* 
> >>missing feature in XForms IMHO.
> >>
> >>Now that XForms 1.1 allows for arbitrary creation
> of nodes 
> >>anywhere in the instance, maybe this could be
> solved by 
> >>making use of the src attribute in a way that
> controls which 
> >>are bound to deepely nested instance nodes that
> are not there 
> >>when the form is initially loaded are instantiated
> lazily and 
> >>only when needed.
> >>
> >>Then the problem with switches could be solved by
> using a 
> >>NMTOKEN instead of an ID on case and limiting its
> scope to 
> >>the nearmost  switch element it appears in. It
> would probably 
> >>introduce some incompatibility though because you
> would need 
> >>a different attribute for it (name?).
> >>
> >>The problem is even worse with repeats, whose ID
> can appear 
> >>in XPath expressions and I don't think it would be
> easily 
> >>doable, nor it would make sense, to limit their
> scope in a 
> >>similar way.
> >>
> >>Thank you for asking this, I hope a solution to
> this problem 
> >>makes it in XForms 1.1 but that's probably wishful
> thinking.
> >>
> >>Again: not having an easy way to do arbitrarily
> nested 
> >>collapsable trees in XForms when being tree-like
> is one of 
> >>the most obvious and evident features of XML (and
> of websites 
> >>too) is a big problem, even the plain old default
> IE 
> >>stylesheet for XML can do that and people have
> found it so 
> >>useful that it has implemented in similar ways
> thousands of 
> >>times, including in mozilla.
> >>
> >>When I say this to potential customers and users
> of XForms 
> >>they look at me like if it was impossible to
> believe, and I 
> >>understand them: when I found out this was
> impossible I lost 
> >>a big part of my XForms enthusiasm myself, which
> is still 
> >>pretty big but that was simply huge before I
> realized that.
> >>
> >>ciao
> >>ste
> >>
> >>Pierre-Alexandre ha scritto:
> >>
> >>>Hello,
> >>>
> >>>I'm trying to make a tree view in xforms. I
> suppose that i 
> >>
> >>must load 
> >>
> >>>all the tree in the dynamic data and use the 
> >>
> >>xforms:switch,xforms:case
> >>
> >>>But it seems to me that this will be a bit
> complicated if 
> >>
> >>the tree is 
> >>
> >>>becoming more and more big.
> >>>
> >>>Is there a simple way to create tree view in
> xforms ?
> >>>Is anyone as tried to do it?
> >>>
> >>>Thanks
> >>>Pierre-Alexandre
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>	
> >>>
> >>>	
> >>>		
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
=== message truncated === 


	

	
		
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Received on Thursday, 3 March 2005 08:01:10 GMT

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