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Re: Client Side Session management

From: Dharmesh Mistry <dharmesh@edgeipk.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 09:34:24 +0100
Message-ID: <020801c45a8f$5a43c330$5000a8c0@uk.edgeipk.com>
To: "Borkar, Milind (MNPS Contractor)" <milind.borkar@mnps.org>, "'Mark Birbeck'" <mark.birbeck@x-port.net>
Cc: <www-forms@w3.org>
RE: Client Side Session managementAgreed too.

The key consideration here is that XForms must support this for both implementation models (Plug-in and Server based). We have developed server based model for this i.e. we have Javascript libraries that are shipped with the first page, hold data between pages and repopulate previous forms. This works for us, but is "not standard".

D




Dharmesh Mistry
Chief Operating and Technology Officer, edge IPK
E dharmesh@edgeIPK.com    
M +44 (0)  7789 222 015

Newbury Office                   T  +44 (0) 1635 231 231    F  +44 (0) 1635 569 371
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  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Borkar, Milind (MNPS Contractor) 
  To: 'Mark Birbeck' 
  Cc: www-forms@w3.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 4:28 PM
  Subject: RE: Client Side Session management


  Hi Mark: 

  I agree with your examples and hence I said that this strategy would be more on a case-by-case basis, and it would be unwise to adapt it 'blindly'. In the examples you give, the most current data is on the client (server-bound transactions being few and far between), and hence 'reusing' it from form to form makes sense - rather it is a must. 

  Regards, 
  Milind. 



  -----Original Message----- 
  From: Mark Birbeck [mailto:mark.birbeck@x-port.net] 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 10:23 AM 
  To: Borkar, Milind (MNPS Contractor) 
  Cc: www-forms@w3.org 
  Subject: RE: Client Side Session management 

  Hi Milind, 

  But what about the users who only connect to a server once a week! There are 
  some applications where users go off and collect data, making use of a 
  snap-shot of data at the same time, and then periodically connect up and 
  synchronise. You need both client and server validation for this situation. 

  A transaction on Amazon is no different to this - part of the transaction 
  takes place on the client before continuing on a server - it's just 
  compressed into a shorter timeframe. 

  Regards, 

  Mark 



  Mark Birbeck 
  CEO and CTO 
  x-port.net Ltd. 
    
  Download our XForms processor from 
  http://www.formsPlayer.com/ 
    
  -----Original Message----- 
  From: www-forms-request@w3.org [mailto:www-forms-request@w3.org] On Behalf 
  Of Borkar, Milind (MNPS Contractor) 
  Sent: 22 June 2004 15:56 
  To: 'www-forms@w3.org' 
  Subject: RE: Client Side Session management 



  I am relatively new to the X-Form forum, but here is my doubt on this 
  approach - How much 'trust' could you show in the data client side data 
  'without' being validated/manipulated/massaged by the server? The general 
  web development guidelines for security dictate that each element be 
  revalidated on the server side, and most of the times the data (such as 
  derived data) is computed on the server. 
  To take a similar situation on the client-server side, applications are 
  required to refresh their client data once a server-bound transaction is 
  completed. This ensures the currency and integrity of the data. 
  I realize that there are performance benefits in retaining data on the 
  client side, but would that not be more on a case-by-case basis? I believe 
  that once you complete a database bound transaction, most of the times you 
  will be required to discard the current client data and refresh it from the 
  backend. Plus, maintaining high volume of data on the client side and 
  'depending' upon it would call for some significant assumptions on client 
  resources , something that could be risky for a web application running on 
  diverse platforms. 
  Regards, 
  Milind. 
  -----Original Message----- 
  From: Thompson, Bryan B. [mailto:BRYAN.B.THOMPSON@saic.com] 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 5:34 AM 
  To: Dharmesh Mistry; www-forms@w3.org 
  Subject: RE: Client Side Session management 



  Yes. 
  An XForms client can hold multiple XML trees as instance data.  It is my 
  understanding that 
  these data either survive a submission (and so are held by the client), or 
  that at most one 
  XML instance data section is replaced after a successful submission (the one 

  whose data was 
  submitted), or that the entire page is replaced (normal HTML Forms-based 
  navigation).  The 
  first and second of these cases are responsive to your request.  They 
  behavior is controlled 
  by the "replace" attribute on the "submission" element. 
  -bryan 
  -----Original Message----- 
  From: www-forms-request@w3.org [mailto:www-forms-request@w3.org] On Behalf 
  Of Dharmesh Mistry 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 4:12 AM 
  To: www-forms@w3.org 
  Subject: Client Side Session management 




  We have been deploying web applications for a number of years now. Where 
  possible we have adopted standards, how for transactional web based 
  applications we have had to question the standard "CGI" model. 
  One thing we think that would be of massive benefit is client side session 
  data (more than just cookies) support. Such that data can be held in the 
  memory of the client. This would enable not having to write code to 
  repopulate forms. Also would overcome the constant issue of Browser back 
  buttons picking up cached forms (which then have to be expired so the server 

  can represent the data). 
  Is this issue being addressed by XForms / W3C ? 




  Dharmesh Mistry 
  Chief Operating and Technology Officer, edge IPK 
  E dharmesh@edgeIPK.com 
  M +44 (0)  7789 222 015 
  Newbury Office                   T  +44 (0) 1635 231 231    F  +44 (0) 1635 
  569 371 
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  This message may contain information which is confidential or privileged. If 

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  edge IPK Limited 
  Registered office - 9 Wardle Avenue, Tilehurst, Reading, Berkshire RG31 6JR 
  Registered in England No. 4286817 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Jason Harrop" <jharrop@speedlegal.com> 
  To: <www-forms@w3.org> 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 2:36 AM 
  Subject: IE rebirth - and XForms support 



  > 
  > 
  > http://blogs.msdn.com/dmassy/archive/2004/06/16/157263.aspx says: 
  > 
  > > "I'm returning to work on the Internet Explorer team.  .. ... I'm 
  > > very 
  excited to be returning to the team where we clearly have much work to do. 
  .. 
  > > 
  > > What am I going to be doing? I'll be on the Program Management team 
  focusing on helping customers and bringing customer feedback to the team. .. 

  > > 
  > > What are we planning for Internet Explorer? Tony Chor the Group 
  > > Program 
  Manager on the team put it well on Channel 9. At this stage there isn't much 

  more to add other than to reiterate the point that the Internet Explorer 
  team does exist and does care. In my new job role I'm very interested in 
  hearing about what you the customers would like to see. .. 
  > 
  > See the blog for more details on how to request XForms support in 
  > Internet Explorer, if you are minded to. 
  > 
  > cheers, 
  > 
  > Jason 
  > 
  > 
  > 
Received on Friday, 25 June 2004 04:35:26 GMT

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