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Re: hasProvenance property name [MAYBE URGENT]

From: Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:24:25 +0000
Message-ID: <EMEW3|e4c3a31f8e545e11cfcea10601d296a1p1QAOS08l.moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|512DDED9.4060806@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>
CC: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, Graham Klyne <GK@ninebynine.org>, Stian Soiland-Reyes <soiland-reyes@cs.manchester.ac.uk>, "www-archive@w3.org" <www-archive@w3.org>
yes Paul, no problem, I wouldn't wait till the call, I would tell all 
editors now.

Luc

On 02/27/2013 10:16 AM, Paul Groth wrote:
> I have this as part of the agenda item on the call tomorrow.
>
> I'd like to decide by then.
>
> @Luc are you ok with the underscore solution?
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org 
> <mailto:ivan@w3.org>> wrote:
>
>     Very honestly: I do not have strong opinion here, I can go either
>     way. But yes, we should decide soon.
>
>     Ivan
>
>     On Feb 27, 2013, at 11:02 , Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl
>     <mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>> wrote:
>
>     > Have we come to a conclusion on this?
>     >
>     > We need to decide to let people go through the staging process.
>     >
>     > I'm in favor of prov:has_provenance . As this is a purely
>     syntactic change from what we already had.
>     >
>     > cheers
>     > Paul
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Graham Klyne
>     <GK@ninebynine.org <mailto:GK@ninebynine.org>> wrote:
>     > I would favour prov:has_provenance over prov:hasprovenance or
>     prov:provenance.
>     >
>     > I have a concern that prov:provenance reads more like a class
>     name than a
>     > property/relation.  Also, can we be sure that, in future,
>     someone won't want to
>     > define prov:Provenance as a class of some kind?  (Because of the
>     case
>     > insensitive matching defined by RFC5988, and arguably good
>     practice generally,
>     > the capitalized form should be off-limits for future use if
>     prov:provenance is
>     > selected.
>     >
>     > #g
>     > --
>     >
>     >
>     > On 26/02/2013 10:51, Paul Groth wrote:
>     > > That seems to be the best way then.
>     > >
>     > > so prov:hasprovenance or prov:has_provenance
>     > >
>     > > ?
>     > >
>     > > Paul
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org
>     <mailto:ivan@w3.org>> wrote:
>     > >
>     > >> Do you mean the element that is generated into the header of
>     the HTML? If
>     > >> that is the only place it appears, I think we can change that
>     for the
>     > >> published PR document before handing it over to the webmaster.
>     > >>
>     > >> Ivan
>     > >>
>     > >> On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:42 , Luc Moreau
>     <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk <mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>     > >>
>     > >>> It's in the <link> element we added last week.
>     > >>>
>     > >>> On 26/02/2013 09:40, Ivan Herman wrote:
>     > >>>> Graham,
>     > >>>>
>     > >>>> I am not sure I understand something.
>     > >>>>
>     > >>>> I have looked at the prov-o document, and that document
>     does not
>     > >> mention the prov:hasProvenance term. Ie, where does this term
>     appear in any
>     > >> of the four Rec-track documents? More importantly, does it
>     appear, if it
>     > >> does, in a normative section?
>     > >>>>
>     > >>>> Ivan
>     > >>>>
>     > >>>>
>     > >>>> On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:30 , Graham Klyne<GK@ninebynine.org
>     <mailto:GK@ninebynine.org>>  wrote:
>     > >>>>
>     > >>>>
>     > >>>>> Hi,
>     > >>>>>
>     > >>>>> [I'm keeping this off-list for now, because if Ivan says
>     there's
>     > >> nothing we can do at this juncture, I see little point in
>     opening the issue
>     > >> for wider discussion.  I am cc'ing www-archive so there's a
>     record of our
>     > >> discussion.]
>     > >>>>>
>     > >>>>> This is a bit embarrassing, given an email I wrote just a
>     couple of
>     > >> days ago.
>     > >>>>>
>     > >>>>> I'm working through comments on PROV-AQ, and Stian has
>     raised the
>     > >> following:
>     > >>>>>
>     > >>>>> [[
>     > >>>>> 32) According to
>     http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988#section-4.2
>     > >>>>>
>     > >>>>> When extension relation types are compared, they MUST be
>     compared as
>     > >>>>>    strings (after converting to URIs if serialised in a
>     different
>     > >>>>>    format, such as a Curie [W3C.CR-curie-20090116]) in a case-
>     > >>>>>    insensitive fashion, character-by-character.  Because
>     of this, all-
>     > >>>>>    lowercase URIs SHOULD be used for extension relations.
>     > >>>>>
>     > >>>>> Should we not have relation URIs that are all lowercase to
>     avoid
>     > >> problems?  ie.
>     > >>>>>
>     > >>>>> Link:<http://acme.example.org/provenance/super-widget>;
>     > >>>>>            rel="http://www.w3.org/ns/prov#hasprovenance"
>     > >>>>> ]]
>     > >>>>>
>     > >>>>> I had completely missed this in RFC5988, and had forgotten
>     about
>     > >> Stian's comment when I replied a couple of days ago.
>     > >>>>>
>     > >>>>> If we hadn't just been through the incorporation of
>     provenance links
>     > >> into the published documents, I'd suggest changing
>     "hasProvenance" to
>     > >> "has_provenance" to avoid the problems noted.
>     > >>>>>
>     > >>>>> So, what now?  I see a few options:
>     > >>>>>
>     > >>>>> (a) keep the same name, and simply note that, when used as
>     a link
>     > >> relation, prov:hasProvenance is compared case-insensitively.
>     > >>>>> (b) if it's not too late, change the property name
>     > >>>>> (c) define a second property that is all lowercase, and
>     declared
>     > >> equivalent to the first.
>     > >>>>>
>     > >>>>> As far as I can tell, the main consequence of going with
>     option (a) is
>     > >> that we MUST NOT in future define a different property/relation
>     > >> prov:hasprovenance, as under some circumstances covered by
>     RFC5988, this
>     > >> would be indistinguishable from prov:hasProvenance.
>     > >>>>>
>     > >>>>> Given where we now are, my inclination would be to stay
>     with things as
>     > >> they are, but add a note reserving the all lower-case versions of
>     > >> prov:hasProvenance, etc., from future use because of the case
>     insensitivity
>     > >> comparison requirement.
>     > >>>>>
>     > >>>>> #g
>     > >>>>> --
>     > >>>>>
>     > >>>>
>     > >>>> ----
>     > >>>> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
>     > >>>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>     > >>>> mobile: +31-641044153 <tel:%2B31-641044153>
>     > >>>> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
>     > >>>>
>     > >>>>
>     > >>>>
>     > >>>>
>     > >>>>
>     > >>>>
>     > >>>
>     > >>> --
>     > >>> Professor Luc Moreau
>     > >>> Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487
>     <tel:%2B44%2023%208059%204487>
>     > >>> University of Southampton  fax: +44 23 8059 2865
>     <tel:%2B44%2023%208059%202865>
>     > >>> Southampton SO17 1BJ email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>     <mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
>     > >>> United Kingdom http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>     <http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/%7Elavm>
>     > >>>
>     > >>>
>     > >>
>     > >>
>     > >> ----
>     > >> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
>     > >> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>     > >> mobile: +31-641044153 <tel:%2B31-641044153>
>     > >> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
>     > >>
>     > >>
>     > >>
>     > >>
>     > >>
>     > >>
>     > >
>     > >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > --
>     > Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl <mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>)
>     > http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/ <http://www.few.vu.nl/%7Epgroth/>
>     > Assistant Professor
>     > - Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group |
>     >   Artificial Intelligence Section | Department of Computer Science
>     > - The Network Institute
>     > VU University Amsterdam
>
>
>     ----
>     Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
>     Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>     mobile: +31-641044153 <tel:%2B31-641044153>
>     FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> --
> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl <mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>)
> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/ <http://www.few.vu.nl/%7Epgroth/>
> Assistant Professor
> - Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group |
>   Artificial Intelligence Section | Department of Computer Science
> - The Network Institute
> VU University Amsterdam

-- 
Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Wednesday, 27 February 2013 10:43:48 GMT

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