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Re: hasProvenance property name [MAYBE URGENT]

From: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:16:02 +0000
Message-ID: <CAJCyKRq2r=MK-EiXduz9jBxi_QbzhwVZLeBeA0xHZr=UDoOqBA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
Cc: Graham Klyne <GK@ninebynine.org>, Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, Stian Soiland-Reyes <soiland-reyes@cs.manchester.ac.uk>, "www-archive@w3.org" <www-archive@w3.org>
I have this as part of the agenda item on the call tomorrow.

I'd like to decide by then.

@Luc are you ok with the underscore solution?


On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:

> Very honestly: I do not have strong opinion here, I can go either way. But
> yes, we should decide soon.
>
> Ivan
>
> On Feb 27, 2013, at 11:02 , Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl> wrote:
>
> > Have we come to a conclusion on this?
> >
> > We need to decide to let people go through the staging process.
> >
> > I'm in favor of prov:has_provenance . As this is a purely syntactic
> change from what we already had.
> >
> > cheers
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Graham Klyne <GK@ninebynine.org>
> wrote:
> > I would favour prov:has_provenance over prov:hasprovenance or
> prov:provenance.
> >
> > I have a concern that prov:provenance reads more like a class name than a
> > property/relation.  Also, can we be sure that, in future, someone won't
> want to
> > define prov:Provenance as a class of some kind?  (Because of the case
> > insensitive matching defined by RFC5988, and arguably good practice
> generally,
> > the capitalized form should be off-limits for future use if
> prov:provenance is
> > selected.
> >
> > #g
> > --
> >
> >
> > On 26/02/2013 10:51, Paul Groth wrote:
> > > That seems to be the best way then.
> > >
> > > so prov:hasprovenance or prov:has_provenance
> > >
> > > ?
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Do you mean the element that is generated into the header of the
> HTML? If
> > >> that is the only place it appears, I think we can change that for the
> > >> published PR document before handing it over to the webmaster.
> > >>
> > >> Ivan
> > >>
> > >> On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:42 , Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> It's in the <link> element we added last week.
> > >>>
> > >>> On 26/02/2013 09:40, Ivan Herman wrote:
> > >>>> Graham,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I am not sure I understand something.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I have looked at the prov-o document, and that document does not
> > >> mention the prov:hasProvenance term. Ie, where does this term appear
> in any
> > >> of the four Rec-track documents? More importantly, does it appear, if
> it
> > >> does, in a normative section?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Ivan
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:30 , Graham Klyne<GK@ninebynine.org>  wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hi,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> [I'm keeping this off-list for now, because if Ivan says there's
> > >> nothing we can do at this juncture, I see little point in opening the
> issue
> > >> for wider discussion.  I am cc'ing www-archive so there's a record of
> our
> > >> discussion.]
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> This is a bit embarrassing, given an email I wrote just a couple of
> > >> days ago.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I'm working through comments on PROV-AQ, and Stian has raised the
> > >> following:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> [[
> > >>>>> 32) According to http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988#section-4.2
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> When extension relation types are compared, they MUST be compared
> as
> > >>>>>    strings (after converting to URIs if serialised in a different
> > >>>>>    format, such as a Curie [W3C.CR-curie-20090116]) in a case-
> > >>>>>    insensitive fashion, character-by-character.  Because of this,
> all-
> > >>>>>    lowercase URIs SHOULD be used for extension relations.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Should we not have relation URIs that are all lowercase to avoid
> > >> problems?  ie.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Link:<http://acme.example.org/provenance/super-widget>;
> > >>>>>            rel="http://www.w3.org/ns/prov#hasprovenance"
> > >>>>> ]]
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I had completely missed this in RFC5988, and had forgotten about
> > >> Stian's comment when I replied a couple of days ago.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> If we hadn't just been through the incorporation of provenance
> links
> > >> into the published documents, I'd suggest changing "hasProvenance" to
> > >> "has_provenance" to avoid the problems noted.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> So, what now?  I see a few options:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> (a) keep the same name, and simply note that, when used as a link
> > >> relation, prov:hasProvenance is compared case-insensitively.
> > >>>>> (b) if it's not too late, change the property name
> > >>>>> (c) define a second property that is all lowercase, and declared
> > >> equivalent to the first.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> As far as I can tell, the main consequence of going with option
> (a) is
> > >> that we MUST NOT in future define a different property/relation
> > >> prov:hasprovenance, as under some circumstances covered by RFC5988,
> this
> > >> would be indistinguishable from prov:hasProvenance.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Given where we now are, my inclination would be to stay with
> things as
> > >> they are, but add a note reserving the all lower-case versions of
> > >> prov:hasProvenance, etc., from future use because of the case
> insensitivity
> > >> comparison requirement.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> #g
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ----
> > >>>> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
> > >>>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> > >>>> mobile: +31-641044153
> > >>>> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Professor Luc Moreau
> > >>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
> > >>> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
> > >>> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
> > >>> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----
> > >> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
> > >> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> > >> mobile: +31-641044153
> > >> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
> > http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
> > Assistant Professor
> > - Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group |
> >   Artificial Intelligence Section | Department of Computer Science
> > - The Network Institute
> > VU University Amsterdam
>
>
> ----
> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> mobile: +31-641044153
> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
--
Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
Assistant Professor
- Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group |
  Artificial Intelligence Section | Department of Computer Science
- The Network Institute
VU University Amsterdam
Received on Wednesday, 27 February 2013 10:16:30 GMT

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