W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > wai-xtech@w3.org > February 2009

Re: summary="" in HTML5 ISSUE-32

From: Jonas Sicking <jonas@sicking.cc>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:37:50 -0800
Message-ID: <63df84f0902251137g28555ca8y55103017fe24b513@mail.gmail.com>
To: David Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>
Cc: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Robert J Burns <rob@robburns.com>, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>, Leif Halvard Silli <lhs@malform.no>, James Graham <jgraham@opera.com>, Joshue O Connor <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>, Steve Axthelm <steveax@pobox.com>, Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, Simon Pieters <simonp@opera.com>, HTMLWG <public-html@w3.org>, wai-xtech@w3.org, wai-liaison@w3.org, janina@rednote.net, Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>, Matt Morgan-May <mattmay@adobe.com>, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, "W3C WAI Protocols & Formats" <w3c-wai-pf@w3.org>
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 10:50 AM, David Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net> wrote:
> <p> this is a layout table.
> <p> there is no summary for this table...
> Now, where was that little d?

I'm sorry, I don't understand the question? Could you elaborate?

> Not picking on you but we need programatic association and clear markup
> which @summary provides today.

This would indeed not be the case with the proposal to have a separate
paragraph (marked up with a <p>) before or after the table.

Could you elaborate on why this is needed?

If we added an attribute like summaryfor="idOfTable" to the <p>, would
that address all the problems you have with this proposed solution? Or
adding a summaryIn="idOfPara" on the <table>. I'm not suggesting this
as a solution, merely trying to understand your complaints with the
<p> solution.

Also, this problem (if it indeed is a problem) does not seem to exist
with any of the other solutions proposed. Maciej listed many more than
I did.

/ Jonas

> On Feb 25, 2009, at 1:42 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:23 AM, David Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>> What actually mystifies me and I've been following every nuounce of the
>> conversation over a long span on several lists is that there has not been
>> shown to be anything satisfactorily demonstrated to replace what can be
>> and
>> has been used as such an accessibility enhancing attribute as @summary.
> Two suggestions I've seen so far are:
> * Use a <p> above the table describing the contents of the table.
> * Change the definition of <caption> to not just be the title of the
> table to also be allowed to contain a summary.
> Both these have the advantage if adding accessibility to all users
> rather than just ones that use AT clients.
> Another suggestion I've thought about is using the table@title
> attribute. Title attributes are already often used to add descriptive
> information out-of-flow. And title attributes are generally available
> in visual UAs in the form of tooltips.
> / Jonas
> --
> Jonnie Appleseed
> with his
> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
> reducing technology's disabilities
> one byte at a time
Received on Wednesday, 25 February 2009 19:38:27 UTC

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