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Minutes of UAAG WG Teleconference of 13/8/2009

From: Jeanne Spellman <jeanne@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:44:19 -0400
Message-ID: <4A845F03.5030207@w3.org>
To: User Agent Working Group <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Minutes:
http://www.w3.org/2009/08/13-ua-minutes

IRC Log:
http://www.w3.org/2009/08/13-ua-irc


Action Items:
no new action items

Text of Minutes:

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                         UAAG WG teleconference

13 Aug 2009

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2009/08/13-ua-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Jeanne, AllanJ, sharper, Kim, David_Tseng, Harper_Simon,
           (SH-sharper), Mark, (irc)

    Regrets
           Henny_Swan, Kelly_Ford, Jan_Richards, Mark_Hakkinen

    Chair
           Jim_Allan

    Scribe
           jeanne

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Review of HTML5
          2. [5]HTML 5 and UAAG review -
             http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html
          3. [6]kelly's comments
          4. [7]7.2
             http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/editing.html#the-hidden-attrib
             ute
          5. [8]7.4 Scroll into view
             http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/editing.html#scrolling-element
             s-into-view
          6. [9]HTML5 section 7.4
          7. [10]7.10 Drag and Drop
      * [11]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <mth> i am only going to be able to do IRC for about 20 minutes.

    <scribe> scribe: jeanne

Review of HTML5

HTML 5 and UAAG review - [12]http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html

      [12] http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html

kelly's comments

7.2 [13]http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/editing.html#the-hidden-attribute

      [13] http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/editing.html#the-hidden-attribute

    Kelly: User agents will need to ensure to reflect the state of this
    attribute in their accessibility APIs. This may be stating the
    obvious but is worth calling out since there are various situations
    today where AT products do or do not show the same text that is
    visually displayed and this is another potential variable to keep in
    mind.

    <AllanJ> JA: if HTML says 'hidden' and CSS says "visible" who wins?

    JA: If there is another CSS or some other setting to make it
    visible, which prevails

    KP: There needs to be a robust user mechanism to allow the user to
    decide what is visible

    JA: if the script changes an element from hidden to visible, does it
    fire an event to refresh the page or notify the user?

    DT: There are notifications that can be sent on the Mac that are
    specific to elements set on the DOM tree.

    <mth> for those who hide form labels off screen with css position...
    it would have been interesting to consider ".hidden" as as less of a
    kludge. this seems to really hide and removes it from view of both
    AT and screen?

    <AllanJ> JS: do we tell HTML that notification of user must be
    included in their document

    DT: Does HTML5 go into that much detail for the user agent
    developer.

    JA: Some of the details of how the user agent should respond or be
    rendered is included in HTML5. But not necessarily this detail that
    the user needs to be notified.
    ... Is there some ability in the Accessibility API for mechanisms
    for notification of layout changes.

    DT: the major ones all support it. But major AT developers may have
    their own mechanisms for getting content information

    JA: Does it have a generic watcher to watch for DOM changes and pass
    that information to the notification mechanism?

    DT: the user agent notifies the Accessibility API that a change has
    happened, then the Accessibility API passes that ifnormation to the
    AT.

    SH: We talked about Mutation Events last week where HTML5 only fires
    mutation events when there are changes to the DOM, so AT that is
    listeninng for mutation events will pick it up. JAAAWS v.10 picks it
    up.
    ... HTML5 only says fire mutation event when appropriate, so that is
    a problem because it leaves it up to the user agent developer to
    determine what/when it is appropriate.
    ... ARIA has rules for determining the importance of mutation event
    notifications. But that is not included in HTML5 yet.

    DT: ARIA has different ratings for alerts, it should be the AT to
    convey that information to the user.

    JA: We need to make a comment to HTML5 and we need to add it to the
    UAAG guidelines.
    ... Based on what Simon and David said, the user agent must fire a
    mutation event and let the accessibility API decide.

    <sharper> [14]http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/dom.html#dom

      [14] http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/dom.html#dom

    <sharper> 3.6.1 Controlling the input stream

    <sharper> Point 8, Remove all child nodes of the document, without
    firing any mutation events.

    JA: what is communicated to the user.

    RESOLUTION: We need to comment to HTML5 that 3.6.1 should fire all
    mutation events and let the accessibility API made the decision of
    what to do iwth it.

    JA: DT, please review section 2 on Assistive Technology.

    Also an issue: If HTML5 says hidden, and CSS says visible, who
    decides?

    DT: Not an accessibility issue, it is resolved at the DOM level. THe
    AT will reflect what is on the screen.

    <AllanJ> JS: cite the item, the issue, and suggest wording

    <AllanJ> ...bring deeper issues to UA group

    RESOLUTION: In section 7.2 (Editor's Draft) make it clear whether
    CSS or HTML takes precedence when they conflict on what is visible.

    Topic HTML5 section 7.4

7.4 Scroll into view
[15]http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/editing.html#scrolling-elements-into-v
iew

      [15] 
http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/editing.html#scrolling-elements-into-view

HTML5 section 7.4

    kelly's comments:
    [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009JulSep/0047.h
    tml

      [16] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009JulSep/0047.html

    This is a DOM Method.

    HTML5: element . scrollIntoView( [ top ] )

    Scrolls the element into view. If the top argument is true, then the
    element will be scrolled to the top of the viewport, otherwise it'll
    be scrolled to the bottom. The default is the top.

    DT: should it change the focus, and what element should the focus go
    to?

    KP: This is a big issue for speech input users, because the user can
    be issuing a command and the focus will be in a different place than
    the user expected.

    JA: It can change the point of regard, change the keyboard focus,
    move the caret in caret-browsing and it can fire an event.

    RESOLUTION: Comment on HTML5 7.4 (Editor's Draft) for HTML5 to
    clarify on the scrollingIntoView whether it changes the the point of
    regard, change the keyboard focus, move the caret or fire an event.
    Does it do some or all of these?

7.10 Drag and Drop

    Kelly's comments: this is mouse based.

    <AllanJ> [17]http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/editing.html#dnd

      [17] http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/editing.html#dnd

    JA: This falls more on us than on them.

    ReSOLUTION: HTML5 needs a "droppable" attribute so that you know
    where valid locations for the drop for keyboard or speech users.

    SH: 3.3.5.7 has activation behaviour section

    Suggest to tell them or we need to put in UAAG for being able to
    stop activation behavior and to know what behavior will activate.

    KP: It is especially important with speech to be able to stop
    behaviors activating.

    <AllanJ> Resolution: 3.3.5.1.7 Interactive content - user needs
    knowledge of which elements can be activated, how to activate, how
    to stop, what will happen,

Summary of Action Items

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [18]scribe.perl version 1.135
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: jeanne
Inferring ScribeNick: jeanne
Default Present: Jeanne, AllanJ, sharper, Kim, David_Tseng
Present: Jeanne AllanJ sharper Kim David_Tseng Harper_Simon (SH-sharper
) Mark (irc)
Regrets: Henny_Swan Kelly_Ford Jan_Richards Mark_Hakkinen
Got date from IRC log name: 13 Aug 2009
Guessing minutes URL: [21]http://www.w3.org/2009/08/13-ua-minutes.html
People with action items:

      [21] http://www.w3.org/2009/08/13-ua-minutes.html

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Received on Thursday, 13 August 2009 18:44:44 GMT

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