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Raw minutes from 20 Jun 2002 UAWG teleconference

From: Ian B. Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:28:19 -0400
Message-ID: <3D122CD3.1000103@w3.org>
To: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org

UAWG teleconference, 20 Jun 2002

Agenda announcement:

Participants: Jon Gunderson (Chair), Ian Jacobs (Scribe),
Harvey Bingham, Tim Lacy, Matt May, Rich Schwerdtfeger,
Jim Allan, David Poehlman

Absent: Marisa Demeglio, Eric Hansen

Previous meeting: 13 June 2002

NEXT MEETING: 11 July, 2pm ET

Reference document 12 September Candidate Recommendation:


1. Requirements for Table Orientation

JG: We have found implementation through style sheets,

   tbody { height: 10em; overflow: auto; }

IJ: Who supports this?

JG: Mozilla (and other UA using Gecko), across Mac, Windows,
and Linux. Internet Explorer does not.

JA: For speech UAs, you can have cell data read before or
after the headers. If you are in a row and you move across
the row, it reads the new column header (and similar for
movement to a new column). You can request all column and
row headers explicitly.

IJ: See comments from CL on HPR behavior:

IJ: So we could make this a query requirement instead of
a rendering requirement.

JG: I think you can do this with Jaws and GWMicro as well.

JA: These tools all do repair when there is lack of markup.
HPR uses id and header attributes.

DP: Jaws speaks changes as well (when moving from row to
     row, or column to column).

JG Proposes:

  - At least one config so that when you move between rows
    and columns, you must indicate changes.
  - Allow user to query for header information for each cell.

Proposed: Reduce 10.1 requirements as follows:

  - For graphical user agents, allow configuration to
    fix headers when table data rendered in the standard
    grid format exceeds the dimensions of the viewport.

  Action IJ: Update table test to add fixed row headers.

Proposed for Speech user agents:

    a) Allow the user to move the point of regard to
       each table cell.

    b) Allow the user query the cell "under" the point
       of regard for associated header information.

    c) Allow config so that when the user moves
       the point of regard from one table row to the next,
       the UA renders as synthesized speech at least
       the changed column header information and cell data.
       Allow the same for column-to-column navigation.

    d) When a cell has no content, indicate this to the
       user when satisfying requirements b and d.

    e) Add a Note that user agents should indicate nested
       tables, and level of nesting.

IJ: What happens for:
  a) Nested tables?
  b) Empty cells?

JG: HPR says "empty".

JA: HPR allows you to navigate to tables. HPR reads
you the caption (if present) and tells you which table
you're on.

DP: In current Jaws, you can get to a table. Information
about captions is available, but you can't query it. You
have to be in a table to navigate among cells.

IJ: What about priorities? Reading info on changes is only P2,
whereas access to the info is P1.

/* Should we drop speech requirements or leave them? */

JG: Advantage of keeping them is for next generation of
digital talking book readers.

HB: Vendors are saying this functionality should be there,
but I don't know details at this point.

  - Make 10.1 for graphical user agents only.
  - For graphical user agents, allow configuration to
    fix headers (to be defined) at least when table data (rendered
    in the standard grid format) exceeds the dimensions of
    the viewport. [Don't abstract this further.]
  - Add a Note to 10.1 that it's useful to allow users to
    query cells for associated header information. "...See
    techniques for more information about table navigation and
    query techniques."
  - Add suggested navigation and query techniques for
    speech user agents.

Action IJ: Propose text for 10.1 to UAWG.

/* RS Joins */

2. Next steps in the Process

  - IJ edits document. UAWG works on implementation report, test

RS: I suggest talking to Director about checkpoints with low
implementation experience before going to last call to save

IJ: In list of changes, I will highlight things with
low implementation experience.

  - UAWG reviews revision and decides to go to last call.
  - We expect to only make clarifications as a result of this last call.
  - From last call, request to advance to PR.
  - Aiming for Rec in the fall.

IJ: It would be good to have a ftf meeting in the fall to
process PR comments (and to renew contact).

DP: I have two meetings last week of September.

3. UAWG work

a) Revision of implementation report based on revision
    of the document and new browser releases.

b) Test suite work

DP: We should work with HiSoftware about their evaluation
tool (can be extended to use UAAG 1.0 requirements).

JG: It would be great to show the Director that our document
has other uses.

Action DP: Put JG and IJ in contact with the folks from

JG: I recommend that people review the test suites to
see how they work.

Open Action Items

JG: Write up user scenarios for why non-text-based highlighting 
for users; notably which users.
Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0027
See for additional questions:

JG: Add implementation of Checkpoint 3.1 from Konqueror
Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0177

JG: Add user style sheets for outline view requirements in Konqueror,
Opera, Amaya and IE to implementation report for Checkpoint 10.5 
Outline view
Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0177

JG: Acrobat 5.0 generates a navigation view, so implementation of
Checkpoint 10.5
Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0177

JG: Add user style sheets as an implementation of configuring 
outline view,
checkpoint 9.10
Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0177

JG: Add implementation of 5.3 Manual viewport open with Mozilla, 
and Snufin
Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0177

JG: Add to implementation report of Checkpoint 4.4:
PlexTalk by Plextor (audio, http://www.plextalk.org/)
Victor Reader by VisuAide (audio, http://www.visuaide.com/dtbsol)
Victor Soft reader by VisuAide (audio, http://www.visuaide.com/dtbsol)
LpPlayer by Labyrinten (audio, http://www.labyrinten.se/english/index)
eNounce (audio and video, http://www.enounce.com/)

Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0177

Completed Action Items

IJ: Ask the Director whether the content type label approach is 
for Checkpoints 1.2, 9.5, 9.6
Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0177

DP: Find out what HPR does with 'headers' attribute. Find out what Jaws
will do with scope/headers attributes.

HPR: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0207
JAWS: ???

TL: Report back on support for THEAD/TFOOT in IE.

MM: Report back on support for THEAD/TFOOT in Opera, Mozilla (Windows)
Opera: no
Mozilla: Yes

IJ: Report back on support for THEAD/TFOOT for some Unix user agents.

JG: Report back on support for THEAD/TFOOT for Mac IE.
IE: No
Opera: No
Netscape 6.2: Yes

Ian Jacobs (ij@w3.org)   http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs
Tel:                     +1 718 260-9447
Received on Thursday, 20 June 2002 15:31:06 UTC

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