- From: Ian B. Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:32:37 -0400
- To: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
UAWG teleconference, 13 Jun 2002 Agenda announcement: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0187 Participants: Jon Gunderson (Chair), Ian Jacobs (Scribe), Tim Lacy, Harvey Bingham, Matt May, David Poehlman Regrets: Marisa Demeglio, Eric Hansen, Jim Allan, Jill Thomas Absent: Rich Schwerdtfeger Previous meeting: 6 June 2002 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0177 Next meeting: 20 June, 2pm ET Reference document 12 September Candidate Recommendation: http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/CR-UAAG10-20010912/ ========== Discussion ========== 1. Resolve remaining proposals for checkpoints with low implementation experience http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2002/06/checkpoint-overview --------------- Checkpoint 10.1 --------------- IJ: Two main issues about 10.1 were: a) Access to conditional content. For example, "summary" and <caption> are covered by checkpoint 2.3. b) Rendering of cell-header relationships. Not covered elsewhere. IJ: As written, my experience with developers is that they don't know when they've satisfied this checkpoint. JG: I think this checkpoint is important, but I agree that 10.1 is distilled into a more vague requirement. JG: For low vision users (using magnifiers), it's important to have relationships clear. IJ: We don't, for example, have a table navigation checkpoint. Instead, we talk about general structure navigation (already a bit vague) and indicate table navigation as something useful. IJ: See HTML spec on scope/headers in HTML 4: "The headers and scope attributes also allow authors to help non-visual user agents process header information. Please consult the section on labeling cells for non-visual user agents for information and examples." IJ: I think that these two are not meant primarily for graphical user agents. JG: I don't know what implementation we have for these attributes. /* David Poehlman joins */ DP: As far as I know, HPR doesn't render "scope". Jaws renders both "CAPTION" and "summary". IJ: Proposal - 1) Make 10.1 an audio output only checkpoint. 2) Other conditional content covered by 2.3. HB: Spreadsheet programs let you freeze headers, so we have that implementation experience. Action DP: Find out what HPR does with 'headers' attribute. Find out what Jaws will do with scope/headers attributes. Action TL: Report back on support for THEAD/TFOOT in IE. Action MM: Report back on support for THEAD/TFOOT in Opera, Mozilla (Windows) Action IJ: Report back on support for THEAD/TFOOT for some Unix user agents. Action JG: Report back on support for THEAD/TFOOT for Mac IE. Resolved (noting that conditional content reqs are covered by 2.3): 1) For graphical user agents, grid rendering is a sufficient technique. 2) If we can find two graphical implementations of fixed headers by 20 June, then make that an explicit requirement. TL: I'm ok with that. 3) For audio user agents, make the rendering requirement to have at least two options: those specified by the 'speak-header' attribute in CSS2 (read once, read for each cell). This checkpoint would be split off and be part of the 'Speech' label group. 4) It's a good idea to keep the current 10.1 wording somewhere since it explains the goal well. IJ: Note that we do not specify how associations between cells and headers are made. DP: How consistent is part three with the rest of the document. JG: We will talk about this in one week, taking into account results of our findings. -------------- Checkpoint 4.6 -------------- JG: We don't have implementation experience for caption positioning. IJ suggested that the requirement be rewritten to be "config to ensure that text not obscured by the background." There was support from Jim Allan and Charles for this (though he notes that may not be easy to verify in practice). JG: Given this change, we would have the following implementation experience: MS WMP: Yes. Quicktime: For quick text tracks, if not used with SMIL, user (when content available) can reposition track. Not fun, but do-able. IJ: Is 4.6 a special case of 4.3 (global config for fg and bg colors)? JG: Yes, I like the idea that 4.3 includes caption text (or any text track). IJ summarizing access issues: a) Text is obscured by background (visual impairments) The proposal covers this. b) Background is obscured by text (visual impairments) Turning off captions would satisfy this. c) Text must be moved in closer (low vision). JG: What about when the caption track is displayed as text but isn't text source? IJ: Not covered by 4.3 then. JG: E.g., quicktext movie. RealText and SAMI and SMIL have true text tracks. Proposal: - Keep requirement as "don't obscure" - Indicate that color fg/bg (4.3) control is a sufficient technique. IJ: Need to define "not obscured" to mean that the text can be read (e.g., the captions track is above the video track or disconnected from it, text background makes text legible, etc.). IJ: Is text with a transparent background satisfactory? IJ: What about turning off captions as a requirement? JG: Some things are open-captioned; user doesn't have control. Resolved for 4.6: - Allow configuration so that captions are not obsured by the associated video track. - Sufficient techniques: a) Render captions in separate viewport. b) Allow user to control caption text background and foreground colors per 4.3. - Other useful functionalities: a) Turn off captions (so that background not obsured). b) Allowing positioning is useful for users with low vision and hearing impaired (or for users who with low vision who aren't native language speakers). - Recall the definition of "recognize" here (notably for open caption formats). - The user agent is not required to make the captions background transparent when those captions are rendered above a related video track. --------------------------------------- Checkpoint 5.5: Confirm form submission --------------------------------------- JG: We have experience (IE, Mozilla (see SSL settings), Opera) for control of form submissions when being done in an insecure context. IJ: This shows that this functionality can be implemented. Should be even easier in *all* situations. I support this checkpoint and don't think it's hard to do. I would like to argue that we keep the checkpoint, list this as experience, and continue to lobby. DP: A lot of times, authors implement warnings before submitting. I don't think that there should be a functionality in UAs when authors don't provide a chance to confirm. /* TL leaves */ Resolved - Keep checkpoint 5.5. - Use security-specific implementation experience as evidence. --------------------------------------- Checkpoint 3.6: Toggle redirects --------------------------------------- JG: Recall that 3.5 (Refresh) we are keeping without the alert. Resolved: Move 3.6 from P2 checkpoint to informative Note under 3.5. We note that the user gets the final content anyway (after the redirect), perhaps with mild confusion due to unexpected change. ----------------- Open Action Items ----------------- JG: Write up user scenarios for why non-text-based highlighting important for users; notably which users. Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0027 See for additional questions: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0029 JG: Add implementation of Checkpoint 3.1 from Konqueror Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0177 JG: Add user style sheets for outline view requirements in Konqueror, Opera, Amaya and IE to implementation report for Checkpoint 10.5 Outline view Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0177 JG: Acrobat 5.0 generates a navigation view, so implementation of Checkpoint 10.5 Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0177 JG: Add user style sheets as an implementation of configuring outline view, checkpoint 9.10 Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0177 JG: Add implementation of 5.3 Manual viewport open with Mozilla, Konqueror and Snufin Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0177 JG: Add to implementation report of Checkpoint 4.4: PlexTalk by Plextor (audio, http://www.plextalk.org/) Victor Reader by VisuAide (audio, http://www.visuaide.com/dtbsol) Victor Soft reader by VisuAide (audio, http://www.visuaide.com/dtbsol) LpPlayer by Labyrinten (audio, http://www.labyrinten.se/english/index) eNounce (audio and video, http://www.enounce.com/) Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0177 ---------------------- Completed Action Items ---------------------- 1. IJ: Ask the Director whether the content type label approach is reasonable for Checkpoints 1.2, 9.5, 9.6 Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0177 2. IJ: Ian will check with Opera on implementation of toggle content refresh Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0177 Result: Does not currently support this requirement 3. JA: Jim will test IBM HPR to see what it does when a language is not supported Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2002AprJun/0177 Result: HPR does not support announcing un-recognized languages -- Ian Jacobs (ij@w3.org) http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs Tel: +1 718 260-9447
Received on Thursday, 13 June 2002 15:35:18 UTC