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Re: Is this a Job for SVG and WAI?

From: Jon Gunderson <jongund@uiuc.edu>
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 11:32:15 -0500
Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20010802112940.02d78338@staff.uiuc.edu>
To: Jon Ferraiolo <jferraio@adobe.com>
Cc: <w3c-svg-wg@w3.org>, <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
Jon
I think I agree with Al [1].  I think someone like Charles should have some 
initial discussions with Michael Diggles to flesh out the main authoring 
and user agent issues.  This could then be brought back to the WAI 
coordination group for organizing a meeting.

Jon

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2001JulSep/0171.html

At 08:03 AM 8/2/2001 -0700, Jon Ferraiolo wrote:
>At 10:09 PM 8/1/01 -0500, Jon Gunderson wrote:
>>Jon,
>>1. Is it possible to author a WCAG compliant document with image maps
>>using PDF?
>
>I can't comment on the WCAG compliance question right now definitively. I 
>would have to read through WCAG again and do some thinking with regard to 
>WCAG and PDF.
>
>What exactly do you mean by image maps? Do you mean image maps in the 
>sense of hyperlinks on regions within image objects like HTML has? The 
>last I looked, PDF only supports rectangular areas for hyperlink regions, 
>but you can put any number of rectangular areas superimposed on images, so 
>you can achieve reasonably comparative results to HTML image maps, at 
>least from a visual rendering and operation via mouse-like pointing 
>device. (Obviously, lots of semantics are lost if a single hot spot in 
>HTML is converted into many rectangular hot spots in PDF.)
>
>
>>2. Is the PDF document using SVG as the internal format?
>
>Not this particular document. It is all PDF. I believe the document is 
>just an example of the sort of information that one might want to make 
>accessible. I believe we all have to use our imagination to think about 
>how to repackage the information to make the information more accessible.
>
>PDF does not support embedded SVG today.
>
>
>>3. Could you send a copy of the document to the working groups for
>>evaluation before the discussion?
>
>The document is accessible via the web at the URL I provided below.
>
>
>>4. I would be interested in particpating in the dicussion.
>
>Great.
>
>Jon Ferraiolo
>
>
>>Jon Gunderson
>>
>>On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Jon Ferraiolo wrote:
>>
>> > As the SVG and WAI working groups discuss WCAG and UAAG, it can be helpful
>> > to have some sample content to evaluate against.
>> >
>> > Michael Diggles has produced a PDF file with some embedded maps and has
>> > issued a challenge asking how someone might approach making this 
>> particular
>> > real-world graphical content accessible. I was wondering if perhaps
>> > volunteers from the SVG and WAI working groups might be willing to do a
>> > conference call with Michael to have him explain the sorts of information
>> > that his maps contain, and then have the WAI team explain the sorts of
>> > accessibility issues that could possible be addressed, and then review
>> > WCAG, UAAG and SVG to see how they measure up.
>> >
>> > Ian, it seems like this sort of a thing might be something which would
>> > interest you.
>> >
>> > Jon
>> >
>> > >X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #10[UCI]
>> > >To: jferraio@adobe.com
>> > >Subject: Is this a Job for SVG?
>> > >
>> > >IN talking with the USGS about accessibility and PDF this morning, 
>> there was
>> > >some discussion of the Diggle Challenge. I looked at this file, and there
>> > >are,
>> > >no unexpectedly, some very complex figures. My question for you: is 
>> this the
>> > >sort of thing for which SVG could produce an accessible solution?
>> > >
>> > >         Loretta
>> > >
>> > >------- Forwarded Message
>> > >
>> > >From: Michael Diggles <mdiggles@usgs.gov>
>> > >Subject: Diggles' PDF with four figures - challenge
>> > >Cc: kkirk@usgs.gov
>> > >X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on gscamnlh01/SERVER/USGS/DOI(Release
>> > >5.0.7 |March
>> > >  21, 2001) at 07/31/2001 12:18:52 PM,
>> > >         Serialize by Router on gscamnlh01/SERVER/USGS/DOI(Release 5.0.7
>> > > |March 21,
>> > >2001) at
>> > >  07/31/2001 12:18:59 PM,
>> > >         Serialize complete at 07/31/2001 12:18:59 PM
>> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>> > >Content-Length: 2065
>> > >
>> > >Hi Loretta,
>> > >
>> > >I'm sorry I missed the conference call this morning.  I talked to
>> > >Keith Kirk this morning after it and he said you would like to try
>> > >your hand at my "challenge" tagging problem.
>> > >
>> > >Here is my note to the listserve:
>> > >
>> > > >From mkwitter@usgs.gov
>> > > >
>> > > >Is everyone out there still in the state of shock or are we the only
>> > > >District that relies totally on Macs to produce reports?  The 
>> statement at
>> > > >the end of the second paragraph (see web site below) of the "Guide to
>> > > >making 508-compliant PDF files"..."The Macintosh operating system is
>> > > >incapable of tagging PDF files for accessibility."
>> > >
>> > >I don't see any evidence that Windows machines do a much better job.
>> > >
>> > >Here is a 3-foot-by 4-foot poster with four figures in it.
>> > >
>> > >http://caldera.wr.usgs.gov/InSAR_slo.pdf
>> > >
>> > >I will buy a beer for anybody who can make it accessible other than
>> > >using the strip-the-graphics technique.  I use both a Mac and a PC
>> > >and I gave up and made a stripped version and a graphic-containing
>> > >version for between now and when we figure out how to tag PDF's that
>> > >come from the plethora of PostScript-generating applications with
>> > >which we have been making our living for years.  I do admit that for
>> > >the version with the graphics stripped out, I moved it from my Mac to
>> > >my PC to use the Make-Accessible plug-in.  Just for fun, here is the
>> > >stripped version:  it passed the accessibility checker
>> > >
>> > >http://caldera.wr.usgs.gov/InSAR_slo_Accessible.pdf
>> > >
>> > >I guess I'll put a little front-end on these two files that say
>> > >something like "click here for graphic-rich version" and "click here
>> > >for accessible version"
>> > >
>> > >I'd love to have a clean way to do it; so that offer of a beer is open.
>> > >
>> > >- --Mike Diggles
>> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > >Michael F. Diggles, Geologist
>> > >Western Publications Group, CD-ROM publications
>> > >Building 3, Room 3-202H
>> > >U.S. Geological Survey, MS-951
>> > >345 Middlefield Road
>> > >Menlo Park, CA 94025
>> > >
>> > >Phone:  (650) 329-5404
>> > >Fax, (650) 329-5453
>> > >mailto:mdiggles@usgs.gov
>> > >http://caldera.wr.usgs.gov
>> > >http://wpg.wr.usgs.gov/
>> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >------- End of Forwarded Message
>> >

Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
MC-574
College of Applied Life Studies
University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL  61820

Voice: (217) 244-5870
Fax: (217) 333-0248

E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu

WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
WWW: http://www.w3.org/wai/ua
Received on Thursday, 2 August 2001 12:27:51 GMT

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