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Re: Is this a Job for SVG and WAI?

From: Jon Ferraiolo <jferraio@adobe.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 20:36:47 -0700
Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010805203527.00df6580@mailsj>
To: Jon Gunderson <jongund@uiuc.edu>
Cc: <w3c-svg-wg@w3.org>, <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
I am perfectly happy with your suggestion. It would be great if someone 
researched the issue and then could share with the rest of us what he 
discovers. This is a much more efficient process than everyone trying to 
research everything themselves.

Jon Ferraiolo

At 11:32 AM 8/2/01 -0500, Jon Gunderson wrote:
>Jon
>I think I agree with Al [1].  I think someone like Charles should have 
>some initial discussions with Michael Diggles to flesh out the main 
>authoring and user agent issues.  This could then be brought back to the 
>WAI coordination group for organizing a meeting.
>
>Jon
>
>[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2001JulSep/0171.html
>
>At 08:03 AM 8/2/2001 -0700, Jon Ferraiolo wrote:
>>At 10:09 PM 8/1/01 -0500, Jon Gunderson wrote:
>>>Jon,
>>>1. Is it possible to author a WCAG compliant document with image maps
>>>using PDF?
>>
>>I can't comment on the WCAG compliance question right now definitively. I 
>>would have to read through WCAG again and do some thinking with regard to 
>>WCAG and PDF.
>>
>>What exactly do you mean by image maps? Do you mean image maps in the 
>>sense of hyperlinks on regions within image objects like HTML has? The 
>>last I looked, PDF only supports rectangular areas for hyperlink regions, 
>>but you can put any number of rectangular areas superimposed on images, 
>>so you can achieve reasonably comparative results to HTML image maps, at 
>>least from a visual rendering and operation via mouse-like pointing 
>>device. (Obviously, lots of semantics are lost if a single hot spot in 
>>HTML is converted into many rectangular hot spots in PDF.)
>>
>>
>>>2. Is the PDF document using SVG as the internal format?
>>
>>Not this particular document. It is all PDF. I believe the document is 
>>just an example of the sort of information that one might want to make 
>>accessible. I believe we all have to use our imagination to think about 
>>how to repackage the information to make the information more accessible.
>>
>>PDF does not support embedded SVG today.
>>
>>
>>>3. Could you send a copy of the document to the working groups for
>>>evaluation before the discussion?
>>
>>The document is accessible via the web at the URL I provided below.
>>
>>
>>>4. I would be interested in particpating in the dicussion.
>>
>>Great.
>>
>>Jon Ferraiolo
>>
>>
>>>Jon Gunderson
>>>
>>>On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Jon Ferraiolo wrote:
>>>
>>> > As the SVG and WAI working groups discuss WCAG and UAAG, it can be 
>>> helpful
>>> > to have some sample content to evaluate against.
>>> >
>>> > Michael Diggles has produced a PDF file with some embedded maps and has
>>> > issued a challenge asking how someone might approach making this 
>>> particular
>>> > real-world graphical content accessible. I was wondering if perhaps
>>> > volunteers from the SVG and WAI working groups might be willing to do a
>>> > conference call with Michael to have him explain the sorts of information
>>> > that his maps contain, and then have the WAI team explain the sorts of
>>> > accessibility issues that could possible be addressed, and then review
>>> > WCAG, UAAG and SVG to see how they measure up.
>>> >
>>> > Ian, it seems like this sort of a thing might be something which would
>>> > interest you.
>>> >
>>> > Jon
>>> >
>>> > >X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with version: MH 6.8.3 #10[UCI]
>>> > >To: jferraio@adobe.com
>>> > >Subject: Is this a Job for SVG?
>>> > >
>>> > >IN talking with the USGS about accessibility and PDF this morning, 
>>> there was
>>> > >some discussion of the Diggle Challenge. I looked at this file, and 
>>> there
>>> > >are,
>>> > >no unexpectedly, some very complex figures. My question for you: is 
>>> this the
>>> > >sort of thing for which SVG could produce an accessible solution?
>>> > >
>>> > >         Loretta
>>> > >
>>> > >------- Forwarded Message
>>> > >
>>> > >From: Michael Diggles <mdiggles@usgs.gov>
>>> > >Subject: Diggles' PDF with four figures - challenge
>>> > >Cc: kkirk@usgs.gov
>>> > >X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on 
>>> gscamnlh01/SERVER/USGS/DOI(Release
>>> > >5.0.7 |March
>>> > >  21, 2001) at 07/31/2001 12:18:52 PM,
>>> > >         Serialize by Router on gscamnlh01/SERVER/USGS/DOI(Release 5.0.7
>>> > > |March 21,
>>> > >2001) at
>>> > >  07/31/2001 12:18:59 PM,
>>> > >         Serialize complete at 07/31/2001 12:18:59 PM
>>> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>>> > >Content-Length: 2065
>>> > >
>>> > >Hi Loretta,
>>> > >
>>> > >I'm sorry I missed the conference call this morning.  I talked to
>>> > >Keith Kirk this morning after it and he said you would like to try
>>> > >your hand at my "challenge" tagging problem.
>>> > >
>>> > >Here is my note to the listserve:
>>> > >
>>> > > >From mkwitter@usgs.gov
>>> > > >
>>> > > >Is everyone out there still in the state of shock or are we the only
>>> > > >District that relies totally on Macs to produce reports?  The 
>>> statement at
>>> > > >the end of the second paragraph (see web site below) of the "Guide to
>>> > > >making 508-compliant PDF files"..."The Macintosh operating system is
>>> > > >incapable of tagging PDF files for accessibility."
>>> > >
>>> > >I don't see any evidence that Windows machines do a much better job.
>>> > >
>>> > >Here is a 3-foot-by 4-foot poster with four figures in it.
>>> > >
>>> > >http://caldera.wr.usgs.gov/InSAR_slo.pdf
>>> > >
>>> > >I will buy a beer for anybody who can make it accessible other than
>>> > >using the strip-the-graphics technique.  I use both a Mac and a PC
>>> > >and I gave up and made a stripped version and a graphic-containing
>>> > >version for between now and when we figure out how to tag PDF's that
>>> > >come from the plethora of PostScript-generating applications with
>>> > >which we have been making our living for years.  I do admit that for
>>> > >the version with the graphics stripped out, I moved it from my Mac to
>>> > >my PC to use the Make-Accessible plug-in.  Just for fun, here is the
>>> > >stripped version:  it passed the accessibility checker
>>> > >
>>> > >http://caldera.wr.usgs.gov/InSAR_slo_Accessible.pdf
>>> > >
>>> > >I guess I'll put a little front-end on these two files that say
>>> > >something like "click here for graphic-rich version" and "click here
>>> > >for accessible version"
>>> > >
>>> > >I'd love to have a clean way to do it; so that offer of a beer is open.
>>> > >
>>> > >- --Mike Diggles
>>> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> > >Michael F. Diggles, Geologist
>>> > >Western Publications Group, CD-ROM publications
>>> > >Building 3, Room 3-202H
>>> > >U.S. Geological Survey, MS-951
>>> > >345 Middlefield Road
>>> > >Menlo Park, CA 94025
>>> > >
>>> > >Phone:  (650) 329-5404
>>> > >Fax, (650) 329-5453
>>> > >mailto:mdiggles@usgs.gov
>>> > >http://caldera.wr.usgs.gov
>>> > >http://wpg.wr.usgs.gov/
>>> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >------- End of Forwarded Message
>>> >
>
>Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
>Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
>Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
>MC-574
>College of Applied Life Studies
>University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
>1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL  61820
>
>Voice: (217) 244-5870
>Fax: (217) 333-0248
>
>E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu
>
>WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
>WWW: http://www.w3.org/wai/ua
>
Received on Sunday, 5 August 2001 23:50:43 GMT

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