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Re: Real world example of destructive onfocus

From: Al Gilman <asgilman@iamdigex.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:59:17 -0500
Message-Id: <200103131638.LAA6110168@smtp2.mail.iamworld.net>
To: Jon Gunderson <jongund@uiuc.edu>
Cc: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
What you said.

At 10:13 AM 2001-03-13 -0600, Jon Gunderson wrote:
>Al,
>At this stage in the process the problem and potential solutions need to be 
>very carefully documented.  This is a new requirement (was not discussed to 
>my knowledge by the working group as a feature before the March FTF) that 
>is potentially very difficult for developers to implement, we need both 
>good justification for the feature, how the feature should work and 
>examples of the problem in the real world (like onChange) as a part of the 
>techniques document.
>
>I do not want the document to go to last call without everyone in the 
>working group understanding the issue and that understanding reflected 
>clearly in the document.  

AG:: Yes.

>I do not want a repeat of our previous last call 
>when the whole area of access to event handlers was barely mentioned in the 
>document.
>

AG:: Yes.

Al

>Jon
>
>
>At 10:20 AM 3/13/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>>At 12:15 AM 2001-03-13 -0800, Aaron Leventhal wrote:
>> >
>> > In my view, onfocus and onblur events are not used in ways destructive to
>> > accessibility. Perhaps someone can prove me wrong.
>> > I also think it's putting a big burden on developers, and the complexity
of
>> > the UI, to support navigating to elements without focusing there.
>>
>>
>>AG:: Is this your impression of what is being asked?
>>
>>What if the kind of 'navigating' we are talking about is precisely "focusing
>>there."  The condition for creation of the onFocus event happens.  The
>>event is
>>created.  This would leave the implementation the job to intercept the
onFocus
>>event so that it does not reach its handler without further approval.
>>
>>Is that onerous?
>>
>>Capturing the event is functionally similar to the example David Poelman
>>mentioned
>>
>> 
<<http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0004C&L=adv-html&P=R636>http://bama.ua
.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0004CL=adv-html&P=R636><http://bama.u/>http://bama.u
>>a.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0004CL=adv-html&P=R636
>>
>>in his post at
>>
>>  blocking enter key form submission:
>>
>> 
<<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001JanMar/0747.html>http:/
/lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001JanMar/0747.html>http:
>>//lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001JanMar/0747.html
>>
>>If capturing the onFocus event is onerous, do you have a non-onerous
solution
>>to satisfying Checkpoint 5.4 on form submission?
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Personally, if we can't find a real world example, I'd like to see
onfocus
>> > and onblur events excluded from the bit about needing to navigate without
>> > setting off event handlers. Unless someone can argue a good case where
it's
>> > really useful.
>>
>>
>>AG::
>>
>>You don't need to find an actual old paint can of kerosene soaked rags in
your
>>neighbor's house to have a rule against them.
>>
>>There have been a lot of casualties from use of onChange to submit forms.
>>While it is true that there is a way to use the screen reader interface to
>>work
>>around this, it is risky to rely for public safety on "there is a safe
way to
>>use this."
>>
>>Maybe we should make the technology safe without requiring casualties first.
>>
>>Al
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Aaron
>> >
>> > jon gunderson wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Does any body have any information on the current use of onFoucs and>>
>>onBlur events?>> >> Jon>> >> >> On Fri, 9 Mar 2001, Aaron Leventhal
>>wrote:>> >> </pre>>> <blockquote type=cite cite>>> Can anyone find a real
>>world example where the automatic onfocus that's >> called is something you
>>don't want automated?>> BTW, thanks to Gregory for the example (albeit
>>strange) of the >> destructive this.close() call.>> >> Aaron>> >> >> -- >>
>>For information about Netscape and Mozilla Accessibility projects, >>
>>please see the Access Mozilla <a
>>href="<http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net/>http://access-mozilla.sourc
eforge.net/"
>>eudora="autourl">&lt;<http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net%26gt;%3C/a%3E
>http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net> >>
>>website.>> To join the mozilla-accessibility mailing list, send email to >>
>><a
>>href="<mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org>mailto:mozilla-ac
cessibility-request@mozilla.org">mozilla-accessibilit
>>y!>> -request@mozilla.org</a> >> <a
>>href="<mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org%3Fsubject=subscri
be>mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org%3Fsubject=subscribe"
>>eudora="autourl">&lt;<mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org%3F
subjec>mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org?subjec
>>t=subscribe&gt;</a>, >> subject &quot;subscribe&quot;.>> >> >> >>
>></blockquote></blockquote>>> <font size=3>-- <br>>> For information about
>>Netscape and Mozilla Accessibility projects, please see the <a
>>href="<http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net/>http://access-mozilla.sourc
eforge.net">Access Mozilla</a>
>>website.<br>>> To join the mozilla-accessibility mailing list, send email
>>to <a
>>href="<mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org%3Fsubject=subscri
be>mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org?subject=subscribe">mo
>>zilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org</a>, subject
>>&quot;subscribe&quot;.<br>>> <br>>> <br>>> </blockquote><br>>>
>></font></html>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Can anyone find a real world example where the automatic onfocus that's
>> >>> called is something you don't want automated? BTW, thanks to Gregory
for
>> >>> the example (albeit strange) of the destructive this.close() call.
>>Aaron --
>> >>> For information about Netscape and Mozilla Accessibility projects,
please
>> >>> see the Access Mozilla
>> >>> 
>>
<<http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net/>http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.
net/><<http://access-mozilla.sourcefor/>http://access-mozilla.sourcefor>> 
> > > ge.net> websit
>
>Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
>Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
>Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
>MC-574
>College of Applied Life Studies
>University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
>1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL  61820
>
>Voice: (217) 244-5870
>Fax: (217) 333-0248
>
>E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu
>
>WWW: <http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund>http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
>WWW: <http://www.w3.org/wai/ua>http://www.w3.org/wai/ua
>  
Received on Tuesday, 13 March 2001 11:38:39 GMT

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