W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > October to December 2001

Re: Minimal Browser Capabilities

From: Vadim Plessky <lucy-ples@mtu-net.ru>
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 13:05:29 +0000
Message-Id: <200112281003.fBSA36H07916@post.cnt.ru>
To: Tina Marie Holmboe <tina@elfi.elfi.org>, w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
On Thursday 27 December 2001 23:34, Tina Marie Holmboe wrote:
|   On Thu, Dec 27, 2001 at 10:48:20PM +0000, Vadim Plessky wrote:
|   > I don't know wether you are familiar with browser's design internals.
|
|     I could be said to be somewhat familiar with such concepts, yes ...

ok.
|
|   > I think it can be treated as some kind of reference design for HTML4 -
|   > "HTML4 implemented in CSS". In fact, I look at this from time to time
|   > when I want to understand some CSS constructions or their treatment by
|   > different browsers better.
|
|     I'm afraid I can't agree there. HTML 4 does not *have* a 'design', it
|     doesn't "look" like anything in particular, but is a language for
|     structure.
|

There is such a thing as "expected behavior" for rendering of HTML4.
It's mostly based on Netscape 4.x rendering and MS IE rendering.

|     HTML 4 is, however, rendered in different ways in different browsers,
| and that rendering can be influence (suggested) by CSS. This said, CSS is
| not in any way fundamental to HTML, nor a natural part of browser design.

But it's part of Konqueror, MS IE, Mozilla/Netscape6, Opera.
Yes, as we already learned, Lynx doesn't have CSS support.
And I can add to this that wget doesn't have CSS as well. :-)

|
|     CSS is a way to *render* content differently than the default way a
|     browser presents it -- and nothing else.

Deafault way is based on default CSs stylesheet, that's my point.
To proove it, I sent default CSS stylesheet from Konq. You can also find 
Opera and Mozilla stylesheets in their respective folders on your hard disk.
MS IE has "hidden" default CSS stylesheet, and this indeed caused some 
problems for implementors of open-source browsers to emultae MS IE behavior.
But so far I can tell you that Konqueror mostly overcome even this limit.
 
Do you have something to proove your statement?
|
|   > If MS adopts SVG and bundles some (even broken or incomplete) plugin
|   > with MS IE - than SVG can attract web developers. Otherwise I doubt SVG
|   > will get acceptance.
|
|     They allready do. The Adobe SVG viewer is bundled with MS IE 6, and
|     since SVG plugins are now also available for Mozilla there is no real
|     reason to not use it.

I have MS IE6 in Windows, and there is no SVG plugin bundled with IE6.
(I installed in separately, though)
Mozilla doesn't have Adobe SVG plugin bundled, and it just can't be bundled 
with Mozilla, as Adobe plugin doesn't have open-source license, and there are 
no sources available for this plugin.

You are taking wrong assumptions here.

|
|   > |     The bottom line: a 'minimum requirements' browser shouldn't break
|   > |     content.
|   >
|   > Content is usually broken by Web Developer, not by Browser! :-)
|
|     Indeed - and what I said above.

I mean: it's up to browser not to render broken content.
The fact that MS IE and Netscape render broken content doesn't say anything 
good in their favour.

-- 

Vadim Plessky
http://kde2.newmail.ru  (English)
33 Window Decorations and 6 Widget Styles for KDE
http://kde2.newmail.ru/kde_themes.html
KDE mini-Themes
http://kde2.newmail.ru/themes/
Received on Friday, 28 December 2001 05:03:46 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Tuesday, 19 July 2011 18:13:59 GMT