W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > October to December 2001

CSS [Re: Minimal Browser Capabilities]

From: Vadim Plessky <lucy-ples@mtu-net.ru>
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 23:15:27 +0000
Message-Id: <200112272013.fBRKD2H02008@post.cnt.ru>
To: Tina Marie Holmboe <tina@elfi.elfi.org>, w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
On Wednesday 26 December 2001 23:33, Tina Marie Holmboe wrote:
|   On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 05:29:38PM +0000, Vadim Plessky wrote:
|   > I am, in particular, very much interested in CSS and how Mozilla
|   > renders *valid* CSS code. Last time when I was checking Mozilla 1_0
|   > targeted bugs,
|
|     I - for one - would be very interested in hearing an elaboration on
|     this topic, as so far Mozilla is the only browser I know of which

_I_ think Konqueror has better CSS support than Mozilla.
NOTE: this is *my* opinion, and I do not want to start another thread with 50 
messages about this.
 
|     consistently renders CSS 'correctly'. In my opinion it is the only
|     useable baseline browser for CSS at this moment in time.

it's ok with me (I mean, your opinion about Mozilla).   :-)
Our life will be much better if we get several browsers with *correct* 
rendering.

Anyway, I can advise you to check out MS IE6/Windows and MacIE 5.1.
Both of them have very good CSS support.
Sidenote: make sure that you have HTML4 Strict DTD for all your HTML files.
Otherwsie, IE6 will render your page in Quirk mode.

Problem with CSS that:
* CSS2 has some parts defined in different way, comparing to CSS1
* CSS3 will have some parts *different from CSS2* (even thoughs none 
implemented CSS2 support yet)
* CSS rendering model itself is rather outdated and misleading
(check "How is it possible to devise such a feeble system?" thread on 
www-style list; I posted some comments on that thread, in addition to very 
valuable comments from MS people.)
One of major limitations is inability to position/center block element 
vertically, without doing some terrible hacks.
* CSS1 test suite is incomplete, and doesn't allow to test CSS1 compliance
 (that's why I started work on my own test suite...)
* there is no CSS2 Test Suite
 (again, I see it as an opportunity)
* nobody (from commercial companies) is going to implement CSS2, and it's 
also questionable wether CSS3 will be implemented by them.

Do you get a point now?...
CSS was designed in a such way that Browser Developers can't implement it and 
test thier work, and at the same time Web Developers do not feel that CSS is 
adequate to their needs!..

|
|   > there were around 500 CSS1 open bugs and about 60 CSS2 bugs.
|
|     There are - per the 27th of December 2001 - 296 bugs that matches 'css'
|     on Bugzilla. Several of these are plain nonsense, such as #114341
|     which states "ggnxp.com - This page looks bad in Moz/NN" and #114512
|     "sandbox.com - Text is not aligned properly in browser" - the latter a
|     result of the CSS file served as "application/x-pointplus" and
|     subsequently ignored by Mozilla.

display: marker, display: run-in, display: compact, line text layout, etc. - 
is enough IMO to prevent Mozilla from going to 1_0 release.
I also strongly encourage Mozilla hackers to support display: inline-block 
from CSS3, as it's already supported by IE6/Win and MacIE5.
 
|
|     It isn't alltogether easy to identify correct bugreports for Mozilla,
|     since documentation has always been their weak point. I would estimate
|     that around 75% of the abovementioned 296 are actually directly
|     related to or correct bugs in reference to CSS 1 and 2.

I was speaking about bugs targeted at Mozilla 1_0 release.
So I guess these are not *simple* bugs filed by some newbie, but rather 
serious, showstopper bugs checked out by, say, Ian Hickson.
|
|     No matter. I use Mozilla 0.9.6 for my everyday browser, and have never
|     regretted it.

Probably you have very fast computer :-)
On my Pentium III/600, it really sucks (sorry to say that!...)
But Mozilla's speed is known problem, and this problem was recognized (and 
confirmed that "we are working on it") by one of key Mozilla developers.
I hope that Mozilla wil become usable somewhere in Sep.-Nov.2002.
// Or Opera will finally implement DOM and JS bindings for DOM in Opera7 or 
Opera8 :-)
 
-- 

Vadim Plessky
http://kde2.newmail.ru  (English)
33 Window Decorations and 6 Widget Styles for KDE
http://kde2.newmail.ru/kde_themes.html
KDE mini-Themes
http://kde2.newmail.ru/themes/
Received on Thursday, 27 December 2001 15:13:41 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Tuesday, 19 July 2011 18:13:59 GMT