W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > January to March 2001

RE: Fw: Disturbing trend in tables

From: Ben Canning <bencan@microsoft.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:37:10 -0800
Message-ID: <76EE387EEA6B5F4CA1CFD5A4BA5229F20D286D@RED-MSG-13.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
To: "'Jim Thatcher'" <jimthatcher@yahoo.com>, w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
I'm curious about the frequent claims about the 'evilness' of FrontPage and
other WYSIWYG editors. I would _love_ to see _specific_ examples of 'bad'
HTML generated by FrontPage (or DreamWeaver) and how you got the HTML
generated. 

While you'll almost always be able to hand code 'tighter' HTML than we can
generate in a WYSIWYG editor (much like hand-coded Assembly is nearly always
more efficient that C++), we do care deeply about this issue and work hard
to generate the cleanest HTML we can. If anyone can give me a litany of
_specific_ bad HTML FrontPage is generating, please send it along so we can
see about addressing those issues.

On the other hand, if you're condemning us because you played around with
FP97 a few years ago and it did something you didn't like, I encourage you
to give FP2000 a try and see if doesn't work better than you think. (And no,
that's not a cheap attempt to get you to go buy FP ;)


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Thatcher [mailto:jimthatcher@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 9:07 AM
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Re: Fw: Disturbing trend in tables


I agree with Bill; what is the problem? Some jump in
and cry foul - another web developer resorting to
totally inaccessible ways - for profit, no doubt. Yet
what is the problem with a paragraph tag in a table
cell? I think nothing. If JFW has a problem with that;
isn't it JFW's problem?

Jim
Jim@JimThatcher.com
512-306-0931
- --- Bill Kules <wmk@takoma-software.com> wrote:
> Could someone please explain why/how this affects
> how Jaws reads the table?
> 
> Thanks,
> Bill
> ----
> 
> Tina Marie Holmboe wrote:
> > 
> > On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 09:38:47AM -0500, David
> Poehlman wrote:
> > 
> > > <tr bgcolor="#eeeeee">
> > >       <td WIDTH="65" HEIGHT="17"><font
> FACE="Arial" COLOR="#000000">
> > >         <p ALIGN="RIGHT">GS-1</font></td>
> > >       <td WIDTH="49" HEIGHT="17"><font
> FACE="Arial" COLOR="#000000">
> > >         <p ALIGN="RIGHT">15,701</font></td>
> > >       <td WIDTH="50" HEIGHT="17"><font
> FACE="Arial" COLOR="#000000">
> > >         <p ALIGN="RIGHT">16,225</font></td>
> > >
> > > I am referring to the <p> paragraph markers
> which are being placed in
> > > the
> > > cell.  These screw up Jaws' ability to properly
> parse the table.  This
> > > is
> > > the second table I have seen like this in recent
> weeks.  I suspect
> > > these <p>
> > > tags are being generated by an HTML editor.  Can
> anyone shed some
> > > light on
> > > their purpose or necessity?
> > 
> >   I believe you are seeing the results of - yet
> another - hack to achieve
> >   a visual layout. From the above I would make a
> guess that they are
> >   trying to get extra space on top of the cell,
> and - as we all know - a
> >   <P> 'makes' extra space.
> > 
> >   But whether it is new ... looks like Frontpage
> to me; like frontpage
> >   always have done stuff.
> > 
> > --
> >  - Tina
> 
> -- 
> Bill Kules, President            Takoma Software,
> Inc.
> (301) 891-7271 voice             Takoma Park, MD
> (301) 891-7273 fax              
> http://www.takoma-software.com
> (240) 460-7376 cellphone/pager  
> wmk@takoma-software.com
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
Received on Wednesday, 10 January 2001 14:50:37 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Tuesday, 19 July 2011 18:13:53 GMT