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Re: numeric web search (Was: URLs instead of URNs)

From: Wolfgang Orthuber <orthuber@kfo-zmk.uni-kiel.de>
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 18:27:35 +0100
Message-ID: <001a01c9def0$6cafd5f0$a3b35ec2@workstation>
To: "Kingsley Idehen" <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Cc: "Dan Brickley" <danbri@danbri.org>, "semantic-web" <semantic-web@w3.org>, "Linked Data community" <public-lod@w3.org>
After our dialogue of yesterday I again thought about the best term for the "pattern name" in
http://www.orthuber.com/wp1.pdf which is simultaneously a identifier and a address. Because of chapter 2.1 of
http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/pub/LinkedDataTutorial/
the term  "http URI"  seems to be appropriate.

We have seen, that a complete, precise, and at once accessible definition in exactly one place on the web can
be very helpful to avoid misunderstandings, and can save much time. Therefore the identifier (the "pattern
name") should not only identify (e.g. the meaning of some numbers), is should also point to (a file which
points to) all defining information (of this which should be identified, e.g. of numbers).

If numeric web search (similarity search) should be integrated into the semantic web and/or if there is 
interest in efficient representation of quantifiable objects, I would suggest to determine the concrete design 
in a meeting, e.g. a workshop.

Wolfgang

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kingsley Idehen" <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
To: "Wolfgang Orthuber" <orthuber@kfo-zmk.uni-kiel.de>
Cc: "Dan Brickley" <danbri@danbri.org>; "semantic-web" <semantic-web@w3.org>; "Linked Data community"
<public-lod@w3.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: numeric web search (Was: URLs instead of URNs)


> Wolfgang Orthuber wrote:
>> We know that a URL refers to a (unique) web address. If also
>> A URL is a Web Address based Identifier
>> then the Web Address determines also the URL. Because the Web address is globally unique, the URL is unique
>> and can be used as unique identifier.
>> Is this correct?
> The URL can be used as an Identifier because you can use a globally unique Resource Location/Address as a
> Name for a Thing (e.g. a Document), albeit with implications (i.e. mobility of the Thing you name).
>> (then I could write that the pattern name in http://www.orthuber.com/wp1.pdf is a URL, because it is based
>> on
>> the location of a unique "linking file" which points to all defining information)
> <http://www.orthuber.com/wp1.pdf> is the Web Address constrained URI (nee. URL) for the resource: wp1.pdf
> exposed to the Web via an HTTP server.  I've made no mention of "all defining information" .
>
> Kingsley
>>
>> Wolfgang
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kingsley Idehen" <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
>> To: "Wolfgang Orthuber" <orthuber@kfo-zmk.uni-kiel.de>
>> Cc: "Dan Brickley" <danbri@danbri.org>; "semantic-web" <semantic-web@w3.org>; "Linked Data community"
>> <public-lod@w3.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 3:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: numeric web search (Was: URLs instead of URNs)
>>
>>
>>> Wolfgang Orthuber wrote:
>>>> Dan,
>>>>
>>>> can a http URI refer transiently or accidentally to some address?
>>> Of course.
>>>> Which term do you suggest for something which permanently refers to a (unique, permanent) web address,
>>>> and
>>>> which differs if and only if the web address differs?
>>> A URI that carries location/address specificity or dependency (transiently or accidentally).
>>>
>>> An Identifier with endowed location specificity (overtly or covertly) isn't optimal, but that doesn't stop
>>> it being an identifier.
>>>
>>> A URL is a Web Address based Identifier -- a URI :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kingsley
>>>>
>>>> Wolfgang
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Brickley" <danbri@danbri.org>
>>>> To: "Wolfgang Orthuber" <orthuber@kfo-zmk.uni-kiel.de>
>>>> Cc: "semantic-web" <semantic-web@w3.org>; "Linked Data community" <public-lod@w3.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 1:31 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: numeric web search (Was: URLs instead of URNs)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 26/5/09 15:17, Wolfgang Orthuber wrote:
>>>>>> Dan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in http://www.w3.org/TR/uri-clarification/ I read "An http URI is a URL"
>>>>>> . So I concluded that a different http URI is a different URL (address).
>>>>>> At this I assumed, that all http URIs which refer to the same address
>>>>>> (case insensitive), are defined as "identical". Is this correct?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd rather they'd have said "URL" is a technically obsolete but common colloquial term for http and
>>>>> http-like URIs. Identity of identifiers is tricky because you have to try to distinguish between
>>>>> identifiers which accidentally of transiently refer to the same thing, versus those where it is built-in
>>>>> to the definition of the scheme (eg. the port 80 and domain name canonicalisation rules).
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Kingsley Idehen       Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>>> President & CEO OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen       Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
> President & CEO OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 27 May 2009 16:24:14 GMT

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