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Re: numeric web search (Was: URLs instead of URNs)

From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 14:31:42 -0400
Message-ID: <4A1D870E.8010109@openlinksw.com>
To: Wolfgang Orthuber <orthuber@kfo-zmk.uni-kiel.de>
CC: Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org>, semantic-web <semantic-web@w3.org>, Linked Data community <public-lod@w3.org>
Wolfgang Orthuber wrote:
> After our dialogue of yesterday I again thought about the best term 
> for the "pattern name" in
> http://www.orthuber.com/wp1.pdf which is simultaneously a identifier 
> and a address. Because of chapter 2.1 of
> http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/pub/LinkedDataTutorial/
> the term  "http URI"  seems to be appropriate.
Yes.
>
> We have seen, that a complete, precise, and at once accessible 
> definition in exactly one place on the web can
> be very helpful to avoid misunderstandings, and can save much time.

Certainly!
> Therefore the identifier (the "pattern
> name") should not only identify (e.g. the meaning of some numbers), is 
> should also point to (a file which
> points to) all defining information (of this which should be 
> identified, e.g. of numbers).
It should be a *conduit* to an associated information resource that 
exposes its constellation of defining characteristics :-)

Kingsley

>
> If numeric web search (similarity search) should be integrated into 
> the semantic web and/or if there is interest in efficient 
> representation of quantifiable objects, I would suggest to determine 
> the concrete design in a meeting, e.g. a workshop.
>
> Wolfgang
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kingsley Idehen" 
> <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
> To: "Wolfgang Orthuber" <orthuber@kfo-zmk.uni-kiel.de>
> Cc: "Dan Brickley" <danbri@danbri.org>; "semantic-web" 
> <semantic-web@w3.org>; "Linked Data community"
> <public-lod@w3.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 4:57 PM
> Subject: Re: numeric web search (Was: URLs instead of URNs)
>
>
>> Wolfgang Orthuber wrote:
>>> We know that a URL refers to a (unique) web address. If also
>>> A URL is a Web Address based Identifier
>>> then the Web Address determines also the URL. Because the Web 
>>> address is globally unique, the URL is unique
>>> and can be used as unique identifier.
>>> Is this correct?
>> The URL can be used as an Identifier because you can use a globally 
>> unique Resource Location/Address as a
>> Name for a Thing (e.g. a Document), albeit with implications (i.e. 
>> mobility of the Thing you name).
>>> (then I could write that the pattern name in 
>>> http://www.orthuber.com/wp1.pdf is a URL, because it is based
>>> on
>>> the location of a unique "linking file" which points to all defining 
>>> information)
>> <http://www.orthuber.com/wp1.pdf> is the Web Address constrained URI 
>> (nee. URL) for the resource: wp1.pdf
>> exposed to the Web via an HTTP server.  I've made no mention of "all 
>> defining information" .
>>
>> Kingsley
>>>
>>> Wolfgang
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kingsley Idehen" 
>>> <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
>>> To: "Wolfgang Orthuber" <orthuber@kfo-zmk.uni-kiel.de>
>>> Cc: "Dan Brickley" <danbri@danbri.org>; "semantic-web" 
>>> <semantic-web@w3.org>; "Linked Data community"
>>> <public-lod@w3.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 3:04 PM
>>> Subject: Re: numeric web search (Was: URLs instead of URNs)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Wolfgang Orthuber wrote:
>>>>> Dan,
>>>>>
>>>>> can a http URI refer transiently or accidentally to some address?
>>>> Of course.
>>>>> Which term do you suggest for something which permanently refers 
>>>>> to a (unique, permanent) web address,
>>>>> and
>>>>> which differs if and only if the web address differs?
>>>> A URI that carries location/address specificity or dependency 
>>>> (transiently or accidentally).
>>>>
>>>> An Identifier with endowed location specificity (overtly or 
>>>> covertly) isn't optimal, but that doesn't stop
>>>> it being an identifier.
>>>>
>>>> A URL is a Web Address based Identifier -- a URI :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kingsley
>>>>>
>>>>> Wolfgang
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Brickley" <danbri@danbri.org>
>>>>> To: "Wolfgang Orthuber" <orthuber@kfo-zmk.uni-kiel.de>
>>>>> Cc: "semantic-web" <semantic-web@w3.org>; "Linked Data community" 
>>>>> <public-lod@w3.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 1:31 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: numeric web search (Was: URLs instead of URNs)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 26/5/09 15:17, Wolfgang Orthuber wrote:
>>>>>>> Dan,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in http://www.w3.org/TR/uri-clarification/ I read "An http URI 
>>>>>>> is a URL"
>>>>>>> . So I concluded that a different http URI is a different URL 
>>>>>>> (address).
>>>>>>> At this I assumed, that all http URIs which refer to the same 
>>>>>>> address
>>>>>>> (case insensitive), are defined as "identical". Is this correct?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd rather they'd have said "URL" is a technically obsolete but 
>>>>>> common colloquial term for http and
>>>>>> http-like URIs. Identity of identifiers is tricky because you 
>>>>>> have to try to distinguish between
>>>>>> identifiers which accidentally of transiently refer to the same 
>>>>>> thing, versus those where it is built-in
>>>>>> to the definition of the scheme (eg. the port 80 and domain name 
>>>>>> canonicalisation rules).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Kingsley Idehen       Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>>>> President & CEO OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen       Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>> President & CEO OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


-- 


Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	      Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
President & CEO 
OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Received on Wednesday, 27 May 2009 18:32:34 GMT

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