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[XHTML] Minutes: 2008-11-26

From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:08:43 +0000
To: public-xhtml2@w3.org
Message-Id: <20081126160440.M84177@hicom.net>

aloha, all!

minutes from today's XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference can be 
found as hypertext at:

http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html

and as an IRC log at:

http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-irc

and as plain text following my signature; as usual, any errors, 
omissions, mis-attributions, clarifications and the like should be 
logged by replying to this announcement on-list...

note that the following 9 resolutions were reached during today's
teleconference:

   RESOLUTION: publish new XHTML Media Types (xhtml-mime) with edits
   agreed to at 2008-11-26 meeting

   RESOLUTION: Shane will publish XHTML Mime Types

   RESOLUTION: close action item 21 and begin request PER for 1.0

   RESOLUTION: request XHTML 1.1 PER transition

   RESOLUTION: request XHTML Basic 1.1 PER transition after SP adds text

   RESOLUTION: request XHTML Print 1.1 PER transition after receiving
   confirmation from melinda

   RESOLUTION: XHTML 1.0 PER (Third Edition) ready for request for
   transition

   RESOLUTION: next face2face (February 2009) will be dedicated to review
   and discussion of XHTML2

   RESOLUTION: change timeline for XHTML2 to start CR 2009-06

please note, as well, that the following 5 Action Items were assigned 
during today's call:

   * ACTION: Shane - get draft policy statement about migrating
   modules on MarkUp front page
   [http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/36]

   * ACTION: Steven - request transition to PER for XHTML 1.1, XHTML
   Basic 1.1, and XHTML Print
   [http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/37]

   * ACTION: Steven - request transition for XHTML 1.0 PER (Third
   Edition) [http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/38]

   * ACTION: Shane - prepare new draft of XHTML2 for review; have
   ready to at least walk WG through changes
   [http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/39]

   * ACTION: Roland - notify HTC of change of verbiage to "DOM2 or
   later" in XML Events 2
   [http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/40]

and, finally, the roadmap for XHTML2 has been updated -- roland will
update the working group's web page to reflect the following:

Roadmap for XHTML2

* Latest Draft(s):
   * Last Public Working Draft: 2002-08 [http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/]
   * Last Editor's Draft: 2007-10-24 
     [http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml2-20071024/]

   * Last Call: 2009-03
   * CR: 2009-06
   * PR: 2009-12
   * REC: 2010-03


thanks, gregory.

     _________________________________________________________________

                                   - DRAFT -

                      XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference

26 Nov 2008

Agenda:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0024.html
   

   See also: IRC log [http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-irc]

Attendees

   Present
          Gregory_Rosmaita, Markus_Gylling, Roland, ShaneM, Steven,
          mgylling

   Regrets
          Tina_Holcombe, Alessio_Cartocci

   Chair
          Roland_Merrick

   Scribe
          Gregory_Rosmaita

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Introductions & Brief Items
         2. Oustanding Actions
         3. XHTML-Mime
         4. Action 21
         5. Additional Completed Actions
         6. Timescale for XHTML2
         7. XML Events 2
     * Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________________

   previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/11/19-xhtml-minuts.html

   Agenda Tracker: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/agenda

Introductions & Brief Items

   MG: Chief Technical Officer at DAISY consortium (http://www.daisy.org)
   - sets international standard for digital talking books - primarily
   blind and visually disabled; been a NISO standard since 2002; now want
   to change code base by 2010
   ... would like to use XHTML2 as host grammar for series of profiles
   and hybrid documents

   <Steven> Sounds fantastic

   MG: following XHTML2 since inception; one of the most poetic of the
   specs i've read; here to help in any way i can
   ... DAISY has always used W3C SMIL for presentation
   ... SMIL3 has dedicated DAISY profile

   SP: in what respect does XHTML2 meet DAISY's requirements;
   accessibility always major aim of XHTML2, but anything that sticks out
   as being particularly useful

   MG: accessibility definitely one point; Role Module will be made
   extensive use of
   ... splitting grammar into to parts: master authoring interface with
   host grammar that is robust enough to act as host for profiles
   (example: republishing print books) - 1 profile for leisure books, one
   for work and text books, another for periodicals; need an underlying
   host grammar, and XHTML2 is ideal for us; XHTML 1.1 too narrow for our
   basic needs in terms of structure; XHTML2 is the "great cleanup" of
   XHTML 1.1
   ... XHTML2 modularity; concept model is stringent and structured
   enough for us to reuse it

   SP: have in past gotten a lot of criticism for changes made, so good
   to hear when people think got it right

   MG: HTML5 makes possible for XHTML2 to remove compromises

   SP: correct; haven't finished all discussions, but points of getting
   rid of compromises, now that HTML5 is being developed in W3C

Oustanding Actions

   Agenda Tracker: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/agenda

   http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions

   RM: first 4 "pending review" are shane's

   SM: Action 11 - draft policy statement about how we want to migrate
   modules; circulated and got feedback; i think my action is done
   (accept christina's comments) then what? needs to be in prominent
   location

   RM: 2 options: 1. link-to from group page or 2. use wiki

   SM: put on MarkUp front page -- needs more perceived stability than a
   wiki

   RM: agree

   MG: latest version can be found where?

   SM: errata gathering for new edition - proposed by RM in august
   ... is right way to do this is "if we identify errata, we will follow
   W3C process defined here"

   RM: seems fine to me - these things happen, here is pointer to how W3C
   process works

   SM: finish action by adding christina's edits

   <scribe> ACTION: Shane - get draft policy statement about migrating
   modules on MarkUp front page [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-36 - - get draft policy statement about
   migrating modules on MarkUp front page [on Shane McCarron - due
   2008-12-03].

XHTML-Mime

   SM: updated typos pointed out by RM

   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0027.html

   SM: additional 1.0 in appendix B

   RM: following applies to both; doctype declaration and lang
   differences between 1.0 and 1.1

   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0023.html

   SM: before or after?

   RM: have it up front most useful - more people use 1.0 - that's why
   requested example for 1.0

   SM: primary examples should be 1.0

   RM: yes, shows all features, including @lang

   SM: leave current action open - will add note as to what i am doing to
   it

   RM: response to olivier's proposal?

   SM: overcome by events; besides, olivier resigned

   SP: friday is olivier's last day

   RM: are we ready to issue XHTML Mime as new note with changes just
   discussed

   SM: +1

   RM: +1

   GJR: plus 1 as amended

   <Steven> +1

   RM: anyone think should NOT push new note?

   RESOLUTION: publish new XHTML Media Types (xhtml-mime) with edits
   agreed to at 2008-11-26 meeting

   GJR: confusion between title: "XHTML Media Types" and shortname
   xhtml-mime

   SM: 3 issues: long title, ref (in brackets in documents - use XHTML
   Mime in all specs) - url should be same as old URI - should be
   xhtml-mime

   <Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/NOTE-xhtml-media-types-20020801/

   SP: old URL said note-xhtml-media-types

   SM: shouldn't be called XHTML Mime, but XHTML Media Types

   RESOLUTION: Shane will publish XHTML Mime Types

Action 21

   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0016.html

   SM: need to ensure all references point to xhtml-mime
   ... no errata on 1.0

   SP: that's amazing

   SM: errata in second edition

   RESOLUTION: close action item 21 and begin request PER for 1.0

   SM: if done same for 1.1 and Basic, can we push them too?

   RM: need to check as WG

   SM: reasonable to record that 1.1, Print, and Basic ready to go to PER
   Second Editions as soon as review finalized by RM

   RM: waiting on feedback from yam

   SP: in process

   <Steven> I have the text

   RESOLUTION: request XHTML 1.1 PER transition

   RESOLUTION: request XHTML Basic 1.1 PER transition after SP adds text

   SP: melinda gave ok?

   SM: yes

   SP: pointer?

   SM: please ask melinda to send something to point to?

   GJR: plus 1 to 1.1 Print PER

   RESOLUTION: request XHTML Print 1.1 PER transition after receiving
   confirmation from melinda

   <scribe> ACTION: Steven - request transition to PER for XHTML 1.1,
   XHTML Basic 1.1, and XHTML Print [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-37 - - request transition to PER for XHTML
   1.1, XHTML Basic 1.1, and XHTML Print [on Steven Pemberton - due
   2008-12-03].

   GJR: is that ok, SP?

   SP: will be able to handle small tasks like this during december 2008

   RM: just want to get request in - can schedule transition call for
   january 2009
   ... XHTML 1.0 PER (Third Edition) ready for transition

   SP: do we need a comments period? strictly speaking, no conformance
   changes, so should sail right through

   SM: 1.0 always pointed to Mime Types document; needs to be reissued
   because of XHTML Mime Types; taken out duplicate material from 1.0

   RESOLUTION: XHTML 1.0 PER (Third Edition) ready for request for
   transition

   <scribe> ACTION: Steven - request transition for XHTML 1.0 PER (Third
   Edition) [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-38 - - request transition for XHTML 1.0 PER
   (Third Edition) [on Steven Pemberton - due 2008-12-03].

Additional Completed Actions

   RM: Action 10 - GJR

   GJR: no, i have to do data mining - will do after call

   RM: action 14 - Shane?

   SM: no progress

   RM: 22 is done

   GJR: action 22 now closed

   SM: contacted mark baker about
   http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/26
   ... RFC left an opening which needs to be plugged

   <Steven> 3236

   SP: RFC 3236

   <Steven> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3236.txt

   GJR: action 26 updated with reference to RFC number and URI

   SP: disposed of issues surrounding disposition of comments which
   claimed we rejected it - when we hadn't

   SM: made change before call

   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0028.html

   SM: Access, Role, and CURIEs at same transition call
   ... makes sense to do in one call -- Access and Role both point to
   CURIEs, so have to change pointers if others go to CR

   RM: based on transition call, may have to make editorial changes

   SM: need to change Access and Role to point to CR version of CURIEs

Timescale for XHTML2

   draft roadmap for XHTML2 for discussion

   Latest Draft(s) : 2002-08 [http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/]

   Last Editor's Draft: 2007-10-24
   [http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml2-20071024/]

   Last Call : 2009-03

   CR : 2009-09

   PR : 2009-12

   REC : 2010-03

   RM: have talked about LC for XHTML2 for 2009-03 -- will we try and do
   another draft before next call

   SM: yes

   RM: estimated date? can we get done before december?

   SM: plate cleared for XHTML2
   ... big document, please re-read

   RM: shoot for new draft this year; draft to review 2 weeks from today

   <scribe> ACTION: Shane - prepare new draft of XHTML2 for review; have
   ready to at least walk WG through changes [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html#action04]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-39 - - prepare new draft of XHTML2 for
   review; have ready to at least walk WG through changes [on Shane
   McCarron - due 2008-12-03].

   SP: next face 2 face?

   RM: february 2009
   ... should allow us to go through document and make decisions during
   february meeting; next face2face devoted to XHTML2

   RESOLUTION: next face2face (february 2009) will be dedicated to review
   and discussion of XHTML2

   SP: 3 months of CR is optimistic
   ... CR at 2009-06 have more time for implementation work

   RESOLUTION: change timeline for XHTML2 to start CR 2009-06

   SP: @href everywhere and @src everywhere biggest changes
   ... saw somewhere a javascript implementation of @href everywhere

   RM: will amend WG roadmap on WG page

   <Roland>
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0018.html

XML Events 2

   RM: replied to comment

   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0018.html

   RM reply:
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0020.html

   <ShaneM> I obviously think the summary is perfect.

   GJR: plus 1 to RM's suggestion: "I think you have accurately
   summarised the discussion. I agree that the sentiment seemed to be
   that we make DOM 2 the baseline for our requirement and that we would
   expect that DOM 3 will be compatible with DOM 2 so that we define XE 2
   such that it works on either and does not require new features of DOM
   3"

   RM: dependency on DOM3 shaky - what do we want from DOM3 events that
   we can't get from DOM2? would it make implementations more difficult?
   ... DOM3 - essential addition: Qnames
   ... don't have direct dependence on Qnames - if they are available,
   great, but if don't have req for Qnames, can we live without it and
   set DOM2 as baseline, with assumption that DOM3 superset of DOM2 and
   would include all that is in DOM2

   SP: sounds good

   RM: agreement that DOM2 basis to work with?

   SP: using DOM3 because in pipleline - nothing in processing model of
   DOM3 we need not in DOM2

   RM: conclusion we came to last week
   ... change XML Events 2 to say "DOM2 and later"

   SP: need to report this to HTCG (hypertext coordination group) - this
   is the sort of change that may or may not affect other groups, should
   notify them

   RM: note to HTC?

   <scribe> ACTION: Roland - notify HTC of change of verbiage to "DOM2 or
   later" in XML Events 2 [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html#action05]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-40 - - notify HTC of change of verbiage to
   \"DOM2 or later\" in XML Events 2 [on Roland Merrick - due
   2008-12-03].

   RM: other topics?
   ... for those celebrating holiday, happy holiday

   ADJOURN

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Roland - notify HTC of change of verbiage to "DOM2 or
   later" in XML Events 2 [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html#action05]
   [NEW] ACTION: Shane - get draft policy statement about migrating
   modules on MarkUp front page [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Shane - prepare new draft of XHTML2 for review; have
   ready to at least walk WG through changes [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: Steven - request transition for XHTML 1.0 PER (Third
   Edition) [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: Steven - request transition to PER for XHTML 1.1, XHTML
   Basic 1.1, and XHTML Print [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html#action02]

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________________
Received on Wednesday, 26 November 2008 16:09:26 GMT

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