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RE: [XHTML Access] activate boolean? & asserting user control (update)

From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 12:44:10 -0500
To: "'Gregory J. Rosmaita'" <oedipus@hicom.net>, <public-xhtml2@w3.org>, <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>, <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Message-ID: <010301c8abb2$f69be780$e3d3b680$@edu>

My concern is that you are asking for functions for a keyboard user that are
not available to a mouse user. If a mouse user activates an element - all
events fire. The user has no idea what will happen or how many things go
off. They only know that an element can be 'clicked on' and something will
happen. 
Why should a keyboard user have the additional functionality of knowing
events available and choosing which events to fire?

Or am I missing something?

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ua-request@w3.org] On Behalf
Of Gregory J. Rosmaita
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 7:45 PM
To: public-xhtml2@w3.org; w3c-wai-ua@w3.org; wai-xtech@w3.org
Subject: [XHTML Access] activate boolean? & asserting user control (update)


aloha!

i find myself in violent agreement with AlG, who wrote:

<quote 
cite="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0067.html"
>any difference between activate="inspect" and activate="no" should be
handled in onFocus processing of the destination object, and not in
the accelerator, pending richer XML Events as noted.
</quote>

my concern, however, about multiple events set for a single object 
remains, especially as some may be set to "no" and others to "yes",
and a user should be able to inspect and choose which events to fire
and which to suppress or whether to move on to the next object; that
being said, i believe that the consensus of all those who have 
contributed or commented on this thread is that, since:

(a) no is the default;

(b) the UA has the necessary functionality through the DOM; and 

(c) nothing would be gained by adding an "inspect" value to "activate"

the emphasis has been properly placed on the user agent -- however, the 
wording on how user agents should handle these and the other situations 
i've outlined needs to be tightened in the Access Module draft and 
reflected -- with cross-citation -- in UAAG 2.0

to that end, at the 23 april 2008 PF teleconference and again at the 
24 april 2008 User Agent Accessibility Guidelines WG call, the Access 
module issues i had raised were discussed, resulting in agreement that:

1. there is no problem with activate being boolean;

2. user control over the firing of multiple events; the ability to delay 
the firing of onFocus or onMouseOver events; the redefinition of keys, 
both at user demand and as error recovery; as well as the issuing of 
pertinent alerts to the user, is properly the purview of the user agent

3. jim allan, the chair of UAAG, took an action item to address the 
issues raised in both of the posts on the Access module:

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0044.html

and

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0045.html

with suggested pointers to pertinent UAAG 1.0 checkpoints, as well as 
verbiage from the UAAG 2.0 draft, to strengthen the user agent 
references in:

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20080220/#sec_3.1.1.
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20080220/#sec_3.1.2.

the pointers from UAAG 1.0 will be normative, as that document is a 
TR:

* UAAG 1.0: http://www.w3.org/TR/uaag10/
* Techniques for UAAG 1.0: http://www.w3.org/TR/uaag10-techs/

while the verbiage from UAAG 2.0 will reflect an increased emphasis upon
clarifying user control cascades and exposition strategies and 
techniques.

there is, however, still the very germane concern about the mouse/pointer 
simulator user -- does a mouseOver event that gives the object focus 
automatically going to fire one or multiple events due simply to the fact 
that the object has obtained focus?  so, pending jim's post, and jim, my 
offer to assist you still stands, the only question that remains to be 
answered is:

will a pointer-driven query of an object be interpreted as activate="yes"?

gregory.
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A conclusion is simply the place where someone got tired of thinking.
                                                      -- Arthur Bloc
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   Gregory J. Rosmaita - oedipus@hicom.net AND gregory@ubats.org
        Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/
 United Blind Advocates for Talking Signs (UBATS): http://ubats.org
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Received on Thursday, 1 May 2008 17:47:27 GMT

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