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Re: SSN-XG Meeting Minutes 15-July-2009

From: John Graybeal <graybeal@mbari.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:09:29 -0700
Cc: public-xg-ssn@w3.org
Message-Id: <5B296472-2C1D-4CD3-9C13-BBB74EC2CE29@mbari.org>
To: Krzysztof Janowicz <janowicz@uni-muenster.de>
I am OK with all of this *except* less OK about the 'release of stable  
versions' via SourceForge.  Release of stable versions should be via  
an ontology repository, in my humble opinion. This may reflect my bias  
toward (a) having only one publication location for the ontology, and  
(b) leveraging the abilities of the repository to provide URI  
resolution and related auxiliary services (e.g., metadata about  
submission, owner, license, etc.; visualizations; and so on).  If we  
decide to go the other way I won't have a fit.

Note that I do not consider MMI's repository a collaborative editing  
environment, just to be clear. It might provide a useful home for each  
update of the ontology, because of the automatic URI generation/ 
resolution.  But then that works best at the moment if the domain is  
actually the repository's domain (mmisw.org/ont); we can serve  
ontologies with other domains but haven't set up the magic to redirect  
from those locations to our system and serve those other URIs.  Would  
be interesting to try this.

John

On Jul 16, 2009, at 12:14 PM, Krzysztof Janowicz wrote:

> Dear All,
>
>> I concur with doing project management at SourceForge, and that it is
>> not a suitable way to maintain the ontology versions themselves.
>
> do we agree to handle the ontology project management (feature request
> from external users, forum for discussion, bug tracker, visibility to
> the public, release of stable versions,...) at sourceforge and look  
> for
> a collaborative editing environment (WebProtege, OWLdiff, MMI
> repository,...) for the ontology editing and versioning? I can set up
> and configure a project at sourceforge and invite everybody (however,
> IMO Holger should be responsible for the release management and so
> forth). I also agree that we should look for a pragmatic solution for
> the licensing, something that allows us all to contribute and is  
> open to
> external users.
>
> Regards
> Krzysztof
>
>
> John Graybeal schrieb:
>> I concur with doing project management at SourceForge, and that it is
>> not a suitable way to maintain the ontology versions themselves.  An
>> ontology repository should be selected for maintaining versions of  
>> the
>> ontology.
>>
>> Following is a use case we consider important for MMI's ontology
>> repository [1]; I would be especially pleased to use any combination
>> that supports it.
>>
>> 1) The first version of the ontology is submitted to the server. A
>> service automatically provides dereferencing for the URIs for all the
>> concepts in the ontology.
>> 2) A second version is submitted to the server.  New URIs are created
>> for all the concepts that have changed. (Philosophically, I'd like  
>> new
>> URIs for all the concepts, but I appreciate that some have visceral
>> issues with that approach.)
>> 3) Any concept that is changed is automatically pointed back (in RDF)
>> to its predecessor using an invertible relationship.
>>
>> With this use case accomplished, versions are automatically tracked.
>> Equally important, someone who uses a concept (URI) at a particular
>> stage of the ontology's development has a method to (a) guarantee the
>> concept doesn't change from under them, and (b) follow the trail to
>> any subsequent versions of that concept, should they need to do so.
>>
>> The MMI repository has this capability, but does not have
>> concept-level differencing capabilities (yet), and does not support
>> wiki-like editing of terms, the way WebProtege (for example) is
>> intended to. But it is offered to this project for its other  
>> features,
>> should those be useful.
>>
>> John
>>
>> [1] MMI Ontology Registry and Repository: http://mmisw.org/or
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 16, 2009, at 12:33 AM, Oscar Corcho wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Sorry to jump in in this conversation without having attended the
>>> last two conference calls, due to travelling. While I agree with all
>>> the statements about community based development with Sourceforge, I
>>> must say that this approach has been tried unsuccessfully in
>>> different sets of activities that I have been participating in the
>>> past. The main problem with this is the following: source versioning
>>> systems are focused on detecting changes/deltas in source code, but
>>> not in ontology code. When a person makes a change in an ontology
>>> with an ontology editor, the most important fact is that the
>>> serialization of the ontology may be **completely different** to the
>>> previous one, in terms of the ordering of the RDF triples that  
>>> appear
>>> in the file, what makes tracking of changes almost impossible for
>>> humans.
>>>
>>> I think that Raúl was commenting the possibility of using  
>>> WebProtégé,
>>> which allows discussions over ontology terms, and probably we could
>>> go for a mixture of technologies/approaches: WebProtégé for the
>>> collaboration part on pure ontology development, and sourceforge for
>>> the bug tracking, the community involvement, and the releases of
>>> specific versions of the ontologies.
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>> Oscar
>>>
>>> -----Mensaje original-----
>>> De: public-xg-ssn-request@w3.org
>>> [mailto:public-xg-ssn-request@w3.org] En nombre de Krzysztof  
>>> Janowicz
>>> Enviado el: jueves, 16 de julio de 2009 8:44
>>> Para: public-xg-ssn@w3.org
>>> Asunto: Re: SSN-XG Meeting Minutes 15-July-2009
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>> Also, I like the idea presented in today’s meeting regarding  
>>>> posting
>>>> the ontology to a popular forum such as sourceforge.net using an  
>>>> open
>>>> license (e.g. Apache/BSD variant) once a suitable baseline is
>>>> available.
>>> Thanks, there are basically three reasons why I brought this up
>>> yesterday. first, a platform such as sourceforge offers us a very  
>>> useful
>>> architecture. we can develop the sensor (and observation) ontology
>>> together using SVN as versioning system and hence document our  
>>> design
>>> decisions (and that is what ontology is about). somebody like holger
>>> could act as release manager and make official releases every x  
>>> weeks.
>>> on one side, this would give as some regular schedule (and  
>>> pressure) to
>>> make our recent changes coherent. on the other side, interested  
>>> people
>>> can always browse the SVN at sourceforge directly to see what is
>>> happening right now. moreover, sourceforge offers a forum, a bug
>>> tracker, and especially also a feature request form. we can use  
>>> these
>>> features to coordinate our work on the ontology but also to get  
>>> feedback
>>> from others. second, if we host the ontology (no matter in which  
>>> stage)
>>> at sourceforge people will start to use it and give us feedback.  
>>> this is
>>> also about transparency - having the ontology only on our wiki  
>>> makes it
>>> difficult for others to find out who is responsible for which  
>>> parts, who
>>> should be contacted, and so on. third, IMO the licensing issue is an
>>> important decision. everybody should be free to use the ontology  
>>> and to
>>> modify (fork) it if necessary (especially because our work is also  
>>> based
>>> on other ontologies). finally, having it at a platform like  
>>> sourceforge
>>> makes sure that work on the ontology can also continue (and be  
>>> supported
>>> by others) after the incubator group ran out.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Krzysztof
>>>
>>>
>>> Kelsey, William D schrieb:
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’m new to the group (today was my second meeting).  I would be
>>>> interested to learn if anyone has draft use cases that are  
>>>> driving the
>>>> Sensor/Observation ontology/ontologies.  If so, can they be shared?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, I like the idea presented in today’s meeting regarding  
>>>> posting
>>>> the ontology to a popular forum such as sourceforge.net using an  
>>>> open
>>>> license (e.g. Apache/BSD variant) once a suitable baseline is
>>>> available.  Hopefully this approach would promote increased  
>>>> exposure
>>>> for both adoption and refinement.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> W. David Kelsey
>>>> Boeing Research & Technology
>>>> Information Management & Transformation
>>>> (206)662-3963
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Holger.Neuhaus@csiro.au [mailto:Holger.Neuhaus@csiro.au]
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2009 2:05 PM
>>>> *To:* public-xg-ssn@w3.org
>>>> *Subject:* SSN-XG Meeting Minutes 15-July-2009
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you all for a really productive meeting.
>>>>
>>>> The draft minutes are available at:
>>>> http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-ssn-minutes.html
>>>>
>>>> Please let me invite you to continue the discussion on the mailing
>>>> list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   *Summary of Action Items*
>>>>
>>>> **[NEW]** **ACTION:** all discuss the versioning etc. of the  
>>>> ontology
>>>> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-ssn- 
>>>> minutes.html#action01]
>>>> **[NEW]** **ACTION:** Cory to put up logistics page for f2f  
>>>> [recorded
>>>> in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-ssn-minutes.html#action03]
>>>> **[NEW]** **ACTION:** Krzysztof to organise O&M ontology meeting
>>>> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-ssn- 
>>>> minutes.html#action02]
>>>>
>>>> The XG’s Wiki page is accessible at:
>>>> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Main_Page
>>>>
>>>> Please let me invite you to use this forum for discussions on the
>>>> development of the Semantic Markup and the Ontology*//*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Holger
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Dr. Holger Neuhaus*
>>>> Post-Doctoral Research Fellow
>>>> Tasmanian ICT Centre
>>>> CSIRO
>>>>
>>>> Phone: +61 3 6232 5547* | *Fax: +61 3 6232 5000
>>>> holger.neuhaus@csiro.au <mailto:holger.neuhaus@csiro.au> *|*
>>>> www.csiro.au <http://www.csiro.au> *|*
>>>> www.csiro.au/science/TasICTCentre.html
>>>> <http://www.csiro.au/science/TasICTCentre.html>
>>>>
>>>> Address: GPO Box 1538, Hobart TAS 7001, Australia
>>>>
>>>> //The Tasmanian ICT Centre is jointly funded by the Australian
>>>> Government through the Intelligent Island Program and CSIRO. The
>>>> Intelligent Island Program is administered by the Tasmanian  
>>>> Department
>>>> of Economic Development and Tourism.//
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Krzysztof Janowicz
>>> Institut für Geoinformatik
>>> Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
>>> Weseler Straße 253
>>> D-48151 Münster
>>> fon: 0049 - 251 - 83 39764
>>> fax: 0049 - 251 - 83 39763
>>> janowicz@uni-muenster.de
>>> http://ifgi.uni-muenster.de/~janowicz
>>>
>>> 'Die Wahrheit ist das Kind der Zeit, nicht der Autorität'
>>> (Bertolt Brecht)
>>>
>>>
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>>> Versión: 8.5.375 / Base de datos de virus: 270.13.15/2239 - Fecha de
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>>>
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>> --------------
>> John Graybeal   <mailto:graybeal@mbari.org>  -- 831-775-1956
>> Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute
>> Marine Metadata Interoperability Project: http://marinemetadata.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Krzysztof Janowicz
> Institut für Geoinformatik
> Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
> Weseler Straße 253
> D-48151 Münster
> fon: 0049 - 251 - 83 39764
> fax: 0049 - 251 - 83 39763
> janowicz@uni-muenster.de
> http://ifgi.uni-muenster.de/~janowicz
>
> 'Die Wahrheit ist das Kind der Zeit, nicht der Autorität'
> (Bertolt Brecht)
>
>


John

--------------
John Graybeal   <mailto:graybeal@mbari.org>  -- 831-775-1956
Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute
Marine Metadata Interoperability Project: http://marinemetadata.org
Received on Thursday, 16 July 2009 20:10:20 GMT

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