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Re: SSN-XG Meeting Minutes 15-July-2009

From: Krzysztof Janowicz <janowicz@uni-muenster.de>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:30:30 +0200
Message-ID: <4A5F8DE6.4000700@uni-muenster.de>
To: John Graybeal <graybeal@mbari.org>
CC: public-xg-ssn@w3.org
Hi John,

> [...]*except* less OK about the 'release of stable versions' via
> SourceForge.  Release of stable versions should be via an ontology
> repository [...]

That's fine with me. What should be the next steps to agree on a repository?

regards,
Krzysztof


John Graybeal schrieb:
> I am OK with all of this *except* less OK about the 'release of stable
> versions' via SourceForge.  Release of stable versions should be via
> an ontology repository, in my humble opinion. This may reflect my bias
> toward (a) having only one publication location for the ontology, and
> (b) leveraging the abilities of the repository to provide URI
> resolution and related auxiliary services (e.g., metadata about
> submission, owner, license, etc.; visualizations; and so on).  If we
> decide to go the other way I won't have a fit.
>
> Note that I do not consider MMI's repository a collaborative editing
> environment, just to be clear. It might provide a useful home for each
> update of the ontology, because of the automatic URI
> generation/resolution.  But then that works best at the moment if the
> domain is actually the repository's domain (mmisw.org/ont); we can
> serve ontologies with other domains but haven't set up the magic to
> redirect from those locations to our system and serve those other
> URIs.  Would be interesting to try this.
>
> John
>
> On Jul 16, 2009, at 12:14 PM, Krzysztof Janowicz wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>>> I concur with doing project management at SourceForge, and that it is
>>> not a suitable way to maintain the ontology versions themselves.
>>
>> do we agree to handle the ontology project management (feature request
>> from external users, forum for discussion, bug tracker, visibility to
>> the public, release of stable versions,...) at sourceforge and look for
>> a collaborative editing environment (WebProtege, OWLdiff, MMI
>> repository,...) for the ontology editing and versioning? I can set up
>> and configure a project at sourceforge and invite everybody (however,
>> IMO Holger should be responsible for the release management and so
>> forth). I also agree that we should look for a pragmatic solution for
>> the licensing, something that allows us all to contribute and is open to
>> external users.
>>
>> Regards
>> Krzysztof
>>
>>
>> John Graybeal schrieb:
>>> I concur with doing project management at SourceForge, and that it is
>>> not a suitable way to maintain the ontology versions themselves.  An
>>> ontology repository should be selected for maintaining versions of the
>>> ontology.
>>>
>>> Following is a use case we consider important for MMI's ontology
>>> repository [1]; I would be especially pleased to use any combination
>>> that supports it.
>>>
>>> 1) The first version of the ontology is submitted to the server. A
>>> service automatically provides dereferencing for the URIs for all the
>>> concepts in the ontology.
>>> 2) A second version is submitted to the server.  New URIs are created
>>> for all the concepts that have changed. (Philosophically, I'd like new
>>> URIs for all the concepts, but I appreciate that some have visceral
>>> issues with that approach.)
>>> 3) Any concept that is changed is automatically pointed back (in RDF)
>>> to its predecessor using an invertible relationship.
>>>
>>> With this use case accomplished, versions are automatically tracked.
>>> Equally important, someone who uses a concept (URI) at a particular
>>> stage of the ontology's development has a method to (a) guarantee the
>>> concept doesn't change from under them, and (b) follow the trail to
>>> any subsequent versions of that concept, should they need to do so.
>>>
>>> The MMI repository has this capability, but does not have
>>> concept-level differencing capabilities (yet), and does not support
>>> wiki-like editing of terms, the way WebProtege (for example) is
>>> intended to. But it is offered to this project for its other features,
>>> should those be useful.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> [1] MMI Ontology Registry and Repository: http://mmisw.org/or
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 16, 2009, at 12:33 AM, Oscar Corcho wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Sorry to jump in in this conversation without having attended the
>>>> last two conference calls, due to travelling. While I agree with all
>>>> the statements about community based development with Sourceforge, I
>>>> must say that this approach has been tried unsuccessfully in
>>>> different sets of activities that I have been participating in the
>>>> past. The main problem with this is the following: source versioning
>>>> systems are focused on detecting changes/deltas in source code, but
>>>> not in ontology code. When a person makes a change in an ontology
>>>> with an ontology editor, the most important fact is that the
>>>> serialization of the ontology may be **completely different** to the
>>>> previous one, in terms of the ordering of the RDF triples that appear
>>>> in the file, what makes tracking of changes almost impossible for
>>>> humans.
>>>>
>>>> I think that Raúl was commenting the possibility of using WebProtégé,
>>>> which allows discussions over ontology terms, and probably we could
>>>> go for a mixture of technologies/approaches: WebProtégé for the
>>>> collaboration part on pure ontology development, and sourceforge for
>>>> the bug tracking, the community involvement, and the releases of
>>>> specific versions of the ontologies.
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>> Oscar
>>>>
>>>> -----Mensaje original-----
>>>> De: public-xg-ssn-request@w3.org
>>>> [mailto:public-xg-ssn-request@w3.org] En nombre de Krzysztof Janowicz
>>>> Enviado el: jueves, 16 de julio de 2009 8:44
>>>> Para: public-xg-ssn@w3.org
>>>> Asunto: Re: SSN-XG Meeting Minutes 15-July-2009
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>> Also, I like the idea presented in today’s meeting regarding posting
>>>>> the ontology to a popular forum such as sourceforge.net using an open
>>>>> license (e.g. Apache/BSD variant) once a suitable baseline is
>>>>> available.
>>>> Thanks, there are basically three reasons why I brought this up
>>>> yesterday. first, a platform such as sourceforge offers us a very
>>>> useful
>>>> architecture. we can develop the sensor (and observation) ontology
>>>> together using SVN as versioning system and hence document our design
>>>> decisions (and that is what ontology is about). somebody like holger
>>>> could act as release manager and make official releases every x weeks.
>>>> on one side, this would give as some regular schedule (and
>>>> pressure) to
>>>> make our recent changes coherent. on the other side, interested people
>>>> can always browse the SVN at sourceforge directly to see what is
>>>> happening right now. moreover, sourceforge offers a forum, a bug
>>>> tracker, and especially also a feature request form. we can use these
>>>> features to coordinate our work on the ontology but also to get
>>>> feedback
>>>> from others. second, if we host the ontology (no matter in which
>>>> stage)
>>>> at sourceforge people will start to use it and give us feedback.
>>>> this is
>>>> also about transparency - having the ontology only on our wiki
>>>> makes it
>>>> difficult for others to find out who is responsible for which
>>>> parts, who
>>>> should be contacted, and so on. third, IMO the licensing issue is an
>>>> important decision. everybody should be free to use the ontology
>>>> and to
>>>> modify (fork) it if necessary (especially because our work is also
>>>> based
>>>> on other ontologies). finally, having it at a platform like
>>>> sourceforge
>>>> makes sure that work on the ontology can also continue (and be
>>>> supported
>>>> by others) after the incubator group ran out.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Krzysztof
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kelsey, William D schrieb:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m new to the group (today was my second meeting).  I would be
>>>>> interested to learn if anyone has draft use cases that are driving
>>>>> the
>>>>> Sensor/Observation ontology/ontologies.  If so, can they be shared?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, I like the idea presented in today’s meeting regarding posting
>>>>> the ontology to a popular forum such as sourceforge.net using an open
>>>>> license (e.g. Apache/BSD variant) once a suitable baseline is
>>>>> available.  Hopefully this approach would promote increased exposure
>>>>> for both adoption and refinement.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> W. David Kelsey
>>>>> Boeing Research & Technology
>>>>> Information Management & Transformation
>>>>> (206)662-3963
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Holger.Neuhaus@csiro.au [mailto:Holger.Neuhaus@csiro.au]
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2009 2:05 PM
>>>>> *To:* public-xg-ssn@w3.org
>>>>> *Subject:* SSN-XG Meeting Minutes 15-July-2009
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you all for a really productive meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>> The draft minutes are available at:
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-ssn-minutes.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Please let me invite you to continue the discussion on the mailing
>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   *Summary of Action Items*
>>>>>
>>>>> **[NEW]** **ACTION:** all discuss the versioning etc. of the ontology
>>>>> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-ssn-minutes.html#action01]
>>>>> **[NEW]** **ACTION:** Cory to put up logistics page for f2f [recorded
>>>>> in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-ssn-minutes.html#action03]
>>>>> **[NEW]** **ACTION:** Krzysztof to organise O&M ontology meeting
>>>>> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-ssn-minutes.html#action02]
>>>>>
>>>>> The XG’s Wiki page is accessible at:
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Main_Page
>>>>>
>>>>> Please let me invite you to use this forum for discussions on the
>>>>> development of the Semantic Markup and the Ontology*//*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Holger
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Dr. Holger Neuhaus*
>>>>> Post-Doctoral Research Fellow
>>>>> Tasmanian ICT Centre
>>>>> CSIRO
>>>>>
>>>>> Phone: +61 3 6232 5547* | *Fax: +61 3 6232 5000
>>>>> holger.neuhaus@csiro.au <mailto:holger.neuhaus@csiro.au> *|*
>>>>> www.csiro.au <http://www.csiro.au> *|*
>>>>> www.csiro.au/science/TasICTCentre.html
>>>>> <http://www.csiro.au/science/TasICTCentre.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> Address: GPO Box 1538, Hobart TAS 7001, Australia
>>>>>
>>>>> //The Tasmanian ICT Centre is jointly funded by the Australian
>>>>> Government through the Intelligent Island Program and CSIRO. The
>>>>> Intelligent Island Program is administered by the Tasmanian
>>>>> Department
>>>>> of Economic Development and Tourism.//
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Krzysztof Janowicz
>>>> Institut für Geoinformatik
>>>> Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
>>>> Weseler Straße 253
>>>> D-48151 Münster
>>>> fon: 0049 - 251 - 83 39764
>>>> fax: 0049 - 251 - 83 39763
>>>> janowicz@uni-muenster.de
>>>> http://ifgi.uni-muenster.de/~janowicz
>>>>
>>>> 'Die Wahrheit ist das Kind der Zeit, nicht der Autorität'
>>>> (Bertolt Brecht)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Comprobada por AVG - www.avg.es
>>>> Versión: 8.5.375 / Base de datos de virus: 270.13.15/2239 - Fecha de
>>>> la versión: 07/15/09 17:58:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> --------------
>>> John Graybeal   <mailto:graybeal@mbari.org>  -- 831-775-1956
>>> Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute
>>> Marine Metadata Interoperability Project: http://marinemetadata.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Krzysztof Janowicz
>> Institut für Geoinformatik
>> Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
>> Weseler Straße 253
>> D-48151 Münster
>> fon: 0049 - 251 - 83 39764
>> fax: 0049 - 251 - 83 39763
>> janowicz@uni-muenster.de
>> http://ifgi.uni-muenster.de/~janowicz
>>
>> 'Die Wahrheit ist das Kind der Zeit, nicht der Autorität'
>> (Bertolt Brecht)
>>
>>
>
>
> John
>
> --------------
> John Graybeal   <mailto:graybeal@mbari.org>  -- 831-775-1956
> Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute
> Marine Metadata Interoperability Project: http://marinemetadata.org
>
>
>


-- 
Krzysztof Janowicz
Institut für Geoinformatik
Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
Weseler Straße 253
D-48151 Münster
fon: 0049 - 251 - 83 39764
fax: 0049 - 251 - 83 39763
janowicz@uni-muenster.de
http://ifgi.uni-muenster.de/~janowicz 

'Die Wahrheit ist das Kind der Zeit, nicht der Autorität' 
(Bertolt Brecht)
Received on Thursday, 16 July 2009 20:31:08 GMT

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