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LLD XG May 26 2011 Minutes

From: ZENG, MARCIA <mzeng@kent.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 19:42:54 -0400
To: public-xg-lld <public-xg-lld@w3.org>
Message-ID: <CA045D99.4E4C%mzeng@kent.edu>
Dear all,
Thanks to the the great help of Antoine and Emma, today’s minutes is now available at:
 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html

A text version follows.
Thanks to everyone who helped or contributed to the minutes.
Cheers,
Marcia


[1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                LLD XG

26 May 2011

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0061.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-irc

Attendees

   Present
          antoine, TomB, Jodi, emma, michaelp, jeff_, marcia, kcoyle,
          edsu, rsinger, Monica

   Regrets
          uldis, daniel, joachim, peter, william, Ray, Kevin, Kim, Kai,
          Gordon

   Chair
          Emma

   Scribe
          Marcia

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]ADMIN
         2. [6]FINAL REPORT - DRAFT
     * [7]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <jodi> can't make it today but will keep half an eye on IRC

   <emma> Previous: 2011-05-19
   [8]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minut   es.html

      [8] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html

   <kcoyle> no, not me. i haven't dialed in yet

   <tbaker> me rssagent, please draft minutes

   <kcoyle> that's me

   <emma> Scribe: Marcia

   <emma> scribenick: marcia

   [9]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/RunningAgenda

      [9] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/RunningAgenda

ADMIN

   <kcoyle> sounds fine

   PROPOSED: To accept
   [10]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minu
   tes.html

     [10] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html

   Emma: any objection to the minutes of last telecon?

   RESOLUTION: approved minutes from last call

   Emma: check the future schedule of agenda
   ... we have asked for extension
   ... until the end of August
   ... have not heard feedback
   ... we will have a telecom every two weeks in the Summer
   ... no telecom next week
   ... many will be at LOD-LAM next week
   ... LOD-LAM summit ... who is going to the summit

   tom: 10 members of the LLD XG will be there.
   ... no formal presentations
   ... may be a good opportunity to disseminate the main ideas we have
   in the report, disscuss the idea of follow on W3C community
   ... suggest to coordinate among ourselves to prepare each session of
   the report
   ... 2-3 slides
   ... combine into one presentation. each will have that on our
   laptop, ready to present some ideas
   ... if the idea is relevant with the break up groups, we can present

   <emma> 0m/e @Monica keep insisting on Nice, I made it finally

   tom: presentation the main point, help to see the big picture of the
   report, find the gaps in the report
   ... important to get feedback
   ... suggest the 10 of us to prepare to cover each section of the
   report, coordinate among ourselves.
   ... attend: Tom, Antoine, Karen, Jodi, Marcia, Asaf Bartov, Kevin
   Ford, Uldis Bojars, Jonathan …

   <scribe> ACTION: Tom to send email to the LOD-LAM participants and   create a final version of the presentation [recorded in
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/26-lld-minu
   tes.html#action01]

FINAL REPORT - DRAFT

   <emma>
   [12]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0055.h
   tml

     [12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0055.html

   <scribe> ACTION: Digikim to update the transcluded version of the
   report by Wed Apr 13 [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/07-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06] [DONE]

     [13] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/07-lld-minutes.html#action06

   Emma: action is done

   <emma>
   [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0051.h
   tml

     [14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0051.html

   <scribe> ACTION: Antoine and Emmanuelle to talk about strategies for
   getting comments at next call [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minu
   tes.html#action15] [CONTINUES]

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action15

   Antoine:there was a suggestion about using a system that allows to
   comment on each paragraphs

   ... found a system used by JISC

   Kcoyle: asking about time period of review

   Emma: we need to get more people in the review process
   ... in the group there were people involved in the edited writing.
   ... may need to extend to beyond the group members
   ... by the end of August, try to get the comments
   ... try to identify one or two reviewers to particular section,
   invite them, like a peer-review process
   ... suggestion on how to proceed
   ... extend to mid-August

   Karen: thinking of more general community feedback
   ... what the library community thinks of this
   ... people will feel that they are involved.
   ... reading report as the general content
   ... Maybe we should send to a number of lists and events to get
   people aware
   ... tell people to propose to the list

   <edsu> +1 # karen's suggestion to get the full report out in front   of a lot of people as a draft

   Karen: need to make sure they feel they are heard

   Emma: need to implment a tool to be able to comment on the wiki

   Karen: many people do not have account on wiki may not to bother to
   do that

   <edsu> kcoyle: just as an aside, this #wwic (why wasn't i consulted)
   is a nice essay about the importance of this :)
   [16]http://www.ftrain.com/wwic.html

     [16] http://www.ftrain.com/wwic.html

   Karen: maybe should be on the email
   ... send a call, telling people to put the words about the
   commenting in the subject line

   <tbaker> +1 to handling comments on email, encouraging specific
   subject lines

   Antoine: wonder if Karen see the system I mentioned.
   ... it was easy to enter
   ... writing next to the paragraph

   <edsu> antoine: which one did you find?

   *ed: [17]http://digress.it/

     [17] http://digress.it/

   Karen: something like that will be good, but maybe a bit more work

   <emma> JISC using the system :
   [18]http://rdtfmetadata.jiscpress.org/

     [18] http://rdtfmetadata.jiscpress.org/

   Antoine: one can see other people's comments together using this
   tool.

   Karen: Jodi replied that there are tools that help to do the
   reviews.

   <jodi> besides digress.it, there is commentpress

   <jodi> [19]http://commentpress.com

     [19] http://commentpress.com/

   <jodi> probably others, too

   <jodi> right, [20]http://rdtfmetadata.jiscpress.org/ is using
   [21]http://digress.it

     [20] http://rdtfmetadata.jiscpress.org/
     [21] http://digress.it/

   Karen: those are wordpress based ones

   Emma: comments on different sections -- move on

   <jodi> one concern raised (by Antoine?) was they encourage
   paragraph-level review, over gestalt/overall review

   <jodi> antoine: sorry, I'm travelling the next 3 weeks, I can't do   that.

   <antoine> @jodi: me too, I understand :-)

   <jodi> antoine: however, my impression is that it's just a wordpress
   plugin, so anybody reasonably comfortable with that would probably
   be able to admin

   <jodi> antoine: the harder questions are sociotechnical -- where do
   you put it (so that it's public in the long-term, doesn't disappear)

   <jodi> antoine: would be bad to mint lots of non-cool URIs! :)

   ACTION: everyone to read
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits#.22Library_Li
   nked_Data.22:_Scope_of_this_report and do lightweight review
   [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minu
   tes.html#action04] [CONTINUES]

     [22] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits#.22Library_Linked_Data.22:_Scope_of_this_report
     [23] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action04

   <emma>
   [24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0048.h
   tml

     [24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0048.html

   Emma: Jodi initiated the discussion

   ... asking for comments

   Tom: reading through dataset examples ... they can also be digital
   resources

   <kcoyle> actually, 'sound recordings' in library records can be
   digital

   Tom: so I edited the description of them

   <edsu> Tom++ # you added mp3 i guess?

   <antoine> jodi: I could ask Europena, maybe...

   <kcoyle> it's just that's only obvious to librarians/catalogers :-)

   <scribe> -- CONTINUES

   <jodi> antoine: that would be great :)

   <edsu> kcoyle: books can be electronic too :)

   <scribe> ACTION: Tom to ask Hideaki or Dickson to review
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06] [CONTINUES]

     [25] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits
     [26] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action06

   Tom: Time is too short for them to review it within this week. I did
   my review and posted the results before this call.
   ... invite to take a look at the section that made changes

   Emma: some feedback, on broadern the general benefits of LD

   Tom: oriented to URIs, emphasized on resources are made more
   accessible
   ... Karen's points on what organizations gain from LD seemed to be
   done mostly. Other comments?

   Karen: It was not missing some content there, but there need to have
   more emphasis. People (like managers) may never heard about 'URI'...
   Maybe says "using LD technologies, you can get these, these, and
   these..."

   ... 'URI' may confuse people

   ... emphasis should be reversed
   ... changing the wording --
   ... open the section with what you get, not with how you get it.
   ... not the process.

   Jeff: maybe emphasize linking

   <rsinger> +1 linking

   <rsinger> and also identifiers

   <rsinger> other than uris

   Ed: agree with Karen.
   ... target to managers, 'URI' might be confusing.
   ... later in the report to talk about how to link, not at the
   beginning of the report.

   <kcoyle> yes, talk about identifiers, not URIs

   <edsu> +1

   Tom: URI is pretty central. The concept of globally unique
   identifiers is central; it is important for understanding other
   benefits.
   ... There could be changes of the wording.

   Karen: good idea to talk about identifiers
   ... a little bit cross to what LD is

   michael: need to be careful, though.
   ... the way of transforming those unique identifiers to the URIs
   still need work
   ... be careful about the wording

   Emma: maybe need other suggestions.

   Ed: suggest Karen to draft, change the background.

   <rsinger> sam here

   <rsinger> er

   <rsinger> sa,e

   <rsinger> gah

   <antoine> :-)

   Karen: will take a stand on that

   Ed: Karen: position them in the way you talked about them is good

   <edsu> kcoyle++ # thanks!

   <scribe> ACTION: Karen to edit the Benefits section [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/26-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06]

   <michaelp> Example for a UUID URI:
   urn:uuid:7673868d-231e-490d-9c4f-19288e7e668d

   <ACTION: Ed to review
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Dat
   asets_Section next Tuesday for discussion on Thursday [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minu
   tes.html#action08] [CONTINUES]

     [28] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section
     [29] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action08

   Ed: need to spend more time
   ... In general, they are very good
   ... vocabularies and the links with the cases are useful
   ... the overview are in both documents
   ... the one that goes on to the report has the 'observations' which
   are very good
   ... will email more
   ... one question is about the distinguishing between value
   vocabularies and datasets

   [30]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Dat
   asets_Section
   ... is it OK to think both
   ... summary of importance of linking. Very nice.
   ... Regarding how the linking is happening in the domain, maybe give
   example of some projects-- frameworks to help people to link things
   ... highlight some those projects.

     [30] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section

   <antoine> SILK (from LOD2)

   scribe: will send email about them

   <antoine> thanks, ed!

   <jeff_>
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Dat
   asets_Section#An_inventory_of_existing_library_linked_data_resources

     [31] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section#An_inventory_of_existing_library_linked_data_resources

   Jeff: about the definitions. Tried to come up with the words to
   explain that value vocabularies can be some kinds of datasets.

   Antoine: there are some datasets can be used as value vocabularies,
   e.g., Freebase
   ... will spend sometime again to write, help the understanding

   Jeff: had a point about these could be thought of datasets

   Ed: might be important to emphasize that things can be fuzzy

   Emma: maybe find people as targets and have them to read and review
   the section.

   <kcoyle>
   [32]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0053.h
   tml

     [32] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0053.html

   <edsu> re: "These are classified into three main groups: metadata
   element sets, value vocabularies, and datasets." doesn't sound fuzzy
   to me

   <scribe> ACTION: Karen to review
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technol
   ogies for next week [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minu
   tes.html#action09] [DONE]

     [33] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technologies
     [34] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action09

   Karen: should add some types of technologies that target to
   different users
   ... e.g., include technologies for metadata developers, not instance
   creators

   <tbaker> Maybe add a reference to the tool Ed mentioned - "framework
   to help people link things"?

   Jeff: some of the things Karen listed are similar to what were
   listed in 'tools' section.

   <tbaker> Ed, do you have a link for that?

   ACTION: Antoine to review
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page for
   next week [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minu
   tes.html#action11] [DONE]

     [35] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page
     [36] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action11

   <antoine>
   [37]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0072.h
   tml

     [37] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0072.html

   Antoine: document is long, and I couldn't help reading the detail. I
   will send email later with comments on details.
   ... but I like it, really well written, the 'problems' made clear
   ... perhaps too clear as the tone of the section is quite negative
   (and for good reasons) ... especially, it does not mention that some
   initatives happened, even if prototypes ... and some headings and
   sentences are quite bold (cf. Jodi's comment) ... so the section
   succeeds, but it makes me feel our efforts are doomed ;-) ... there
   could be some words changed, to instill hope ... perhaps it would be
   good also to connect individual issues to individual recommendations

   <kcoyle> :-)

   <edsu> hope++

   Karen: those of us who worked on the recommendations realized to go
   back to the issues too.

   <tbaker> kcoyle, jodi - a good place to pick up on our next call
   (Draft_issues)

   Emma: We have reached to the end of the hour... will leave two more
   reviews to discuss next time.

   <jodi> tbaker: sure. I'm booked out until LOD-LAM, though

   Emma: close the actions that people already reported, re: reviews

   <jodi> tbaker: don't feel the need to wait for me

   <emma> Still to be discussed : Recommendation section and Use case   report

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Karen to edit the Benefits section [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/26-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: Tom to send email to the LOD-LAM participants and
   create a final version of the presentation [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/26-lld-minu
   tes.html#action01]

   [PENDING] ACTION: Antoine and Emmanuelle to talk about strategies
   for getting comments at next call [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minu
   tes.html#action15]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Tom to ask Hideaki or Dickson to review
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06]
   [PENDING] ACTION: everyone to read
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits#.22Library_Li
   nked_Data.22:_Scope_of_this_report and do lightweight review
   [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minu
   tes.html#action04]

     [40] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action15
     [41] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits
     [42] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action06
     [43] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits#.22Library_Linked_Data.22:_Scope_of_this_report
     [44] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action04

   [DONE] ACTION: Ed to review
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Dat
   asets_Section next Tuesday for discussion on Thursday [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minu
   tes.html#action08]
   [DONE] ACTION: Digikim to update the transcluded version of the
   report by Wed Apr 13 [recorded in
   [47]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/07-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06]
   [DONE] ACTION: Antoine to review
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page for
   next week [recorded in
   [49]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minu
   tes.html#action11]
   [DONE] ACTION: Karen to review
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technol
   ogies for next week [recorded in
   [51]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minu
   tes.html#action09]

     [45] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section
     [46] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action08
     [47] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/07-lld-minutes.html#action06
     [48] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page
     [49] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action11
     [50] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technologies
     [51] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action09

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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