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Minutes for 2011-08-11 W3C LLD-XG Meeting

From: Ross Singer <ross.singer@talis.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 17:06:04 -0400
Message-ID: <CAPJqReOaE2rdefAGpuNYk265gbMXjVsM4PwbmEJTpwQu+tSTsA@mail.gmail.com>
To: public-xg-lld <public-xg-lld@w3.org>
Hi everybody,

The minutes for today's meeting can be found at:
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/11-lld-minutes.html

A text version follows in this email.

Thanks for participating!
-Ross.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                LLD XG

11 Aug 2011

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Aug/0026.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-lld-irc

Attendees

   Present
          antoine, kai, rsinger, kcoyle, marcia, Tom_Baker, jeff_,
          emma_, edsu, rayd, kefo, jneubert, uldis

   Regrets
          Peter, Jodi, Monica

   Chair
          Emma

   Scribe
          Ross

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Minutes of previous telecons
         2. [6]Admin
         3. [7]COMMENTS RECEIVED
         4. [8]FINAL DELIVERABLES
     * [9]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <emma> Previous: 2011-08-04
   [10]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minu
   tes.html

     [10] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html

   <antoine> Scribe: Ross

   <antoine> Scribenick: rsinger

Admin

   Minutes of previous telecons PROPOSED: To accept
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minu
   tes.html

     [11] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html

   <antoine> RESOLVED: To accept
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minu
   tes.html

     [12] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html

COMMENTS RECEIVED

   -- Current, up-to-date compilation of all sections (note that
   sections

   must be edited separately)

   [13]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportWithTranscl
   usion

     [13] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportWithTransclusion

   [14]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minu
   tes.html#action04]

     [14] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html#action04

   <antoine>
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportWithTranscl
   usion-Multiple_Reports

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportWithTransclusion-Multiple_Reports

   antoine: in general it seems alright
   ... could use input from others, but it's the right direction

   emma: but it does include the new text from the vocabs section

   antoine: prepared a shortened introduction that could replace the
   longer one
   ... we can remove all of the sections of relevant datasets / put
   them on the end?
   ... I know this is not all completely clear :)

   kcoyle: the section of relevant technologies - none of those have
   introductions; they're very concise
   ... I don't believe it would fit in that area, stylistically

   <antoine> My shortened intro:
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Dat
   asets_Section2

     [16] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section2

   kcoyle: they are all very short statements, if there's more to be
   said, it should be an area with more detail

   antoine: karen has a point

   emma: i would prefer it as an appendix, opinions?

   channel: silence

   antoine: so do we prefer the longer or shorter introductory text?

   kcoyle: this goes with the appendix on datasets and vocabularies?

   antoine: i can produce three different version

   kcoyle: I don't know that that's necessary, if it's in the appendix
   - we aren't limiting appendices' lengths

   emma: I prefer the shorter version

   kcoyle: the benefits we're keeping short, so people will read them
   -- it makes sense to let the appendices be longer, if people want to
   read them

   <antoine> ACTION: Jodi to make an alternative transclusion [recorded
   in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minu
   tes.html#action04] [DONE]

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html#action04

   -- Maintained by volunteers responsible for acknowledging and
   answering posted reviews
   2011-07-23 to 2001-07-30: Daniel
   2011-07-30 to 2001-08-11: Emma
   2011-08-11 to 2001-08-18: ?

   <scribe> ACTION: Emma to keep track of comments through AUG. 11
   [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minu
   tes.html#action03] [DONE]

     [18] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html#action03

   emma: I did not include the vendors' comments in the tracking
   process

   <scribe> ACTION: Editors of each section should watch for
   substantial comments to their section [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/06/30-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06] [DONE]

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/06/30-lld-minutes.html#action06

FINAL DELIVERABLES

   EXECUTIVE SUMMARY (tbd)

   -- [20]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/ExecutiveSummary

     [20] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/ExecutiveSummary

   emma: this was due last week

   kcoyle: I sent out an outline last week, with no response. Last
   night I wrote up a crude draft and it's in the transclusion, but
   still needs work

   <antoine>
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportWithTranscl
   usion#Executive_Summary

     [21] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportWithTransclusion#Executive_Summary

   kcoyle: but if there's something there, other people might edit it

   emma: There's nothing in the version

   <antoine> Newest
   version:[22]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportWit
   hTransclusion-Multiple_Reports#Executive_Summary

     [22] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportWithTransclusion-Multiple_Reports#Executive_Summary

   emma: this is the newest version, but Jodi said we should replace
   the old version

   kcoyle: adding the Executive Summary into it now
   ... typing....
   ... now in both versions
   ... but not very good

   emma: This should get review and comments on the list

   kcoyle: we need to determine how much detail to put into it
   ... And there should be another section, per TomB, about methodology

   emma: Karen, could send a call on the list to solicit comments?

   kcoyle: sure

   <scribe> ACTION: Karen, Tom, Michael, and Gordon to write the
   executive summary due in two weeks. [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minu
   tes.html#action05] [CONTINUES]

     [23] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minutes.html#action05

   "LIBRARY LINKED DATA": SCOPE OF THIS REPORT (Karen, Peter, Tom,
   Gordon, Jodi)

   --
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits#.22Library_Li
   nked_Data.22:_Scope_of_this_report

     [24] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits#.22Library_Linked_Data.22:_Scope_of_this_report

   antoine: back to the exec summary, I see that the benefits are under
   the executive summary

   TomB: do we have a clear action on the methodology section?

   emma: No.

   <antoine> kcoyle: the benefits are not in the executive summary

   TomB: I would like to propose we have a paragraph or two about this
   and you can give me an action

   <scribe> ACTION: TomB to write the methodology paragraph [recorded
   in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/11-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06]

   emma: Any other comments?
   ... we can discuss the scope of the report
   ... We had a definition of "open data" which is now in discussion on
   the list
   ... does anybody have any comments? Otherwise, discuss on the list.
   ... no comment, moving on to the Benefits section

   <kai> I consider it important, but on the list is ok

   emma: Benefits editors met on Tuesday: Ed, Emma and Tom (Ross
   absent)
   ... We didn't change the structure of the section
   ... some rewriting, parts were unclear
   ... Added a few items

   <emma_>
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/index.php?title=Benefi
   ts&diff=5697&oldid=5271

     [26] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/index.php?title=Benefits&diff=5697&oldid=5271

   emma: that is a diff between late July and today
   ... most are editorial, removed Stone Soup

   scribe: benefits to researchers, benefits to organization, bottom
   up/top down
   ... benefits to librarians: data semantics, data structures
   ... benefits to developers and vendors: small addition

   kcoyle: there is a point where the part about semantics, "By making
   a clean distinction ... linked data will be better". But it seems...
   it's making "use of" the semantics, that sentence doesn't explain it
   - it makes the distinction.
   ... if I think of something better, I'll make a change

   emma: better standards, not better data

   kcoyle: it makes me not understand that you want them both

   <jeff_> how about "better vocabularies" rather than "better
   standards"?

   TomB: This is a point that Gordon was making: by making the
   distinction between semantic syntax ; it makes the standards
   independent of the encoding or serialization
   ... it's not intended to imply that it's not important, how to make
   standards that are more durable by making them independent of any
   data structure

   kcoyle: that's not clear in the present wording

   TomB: if that's not coming out, please add some ideas

   <scribe> ACTION: Editors of BENEFITS to meet and work on the
   comments. [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minu
   tes.html#action07] [DONE]

     [27] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html#action07

   <scribe> ACTION: Karen will track items from former "issues" and
   "recommendations" that belong to benefits [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minu
   tes.html#action08] [DONE]

     [28] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html#action08

   AVAILABLE VOCABULARIES AND DATASETS (Antoine, Jeff, Marcia, William)
   --
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Dat
   asets_Section

     [29] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section

   emma: Any comments?

   <antoine> no!

   emma: This is a set item, we can move on

   RELEVANT TECHNOLOGIES (Jeff) --
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technol
   ogies

     [30] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technologies

   emma: This is now an appendix at the end

   <antoine> we can drop the first action

   emma: any comments on the two actions in the section?

   <scribe> ACTION: everybody to scrutinize the relevant technologies
   to solve the issue of mixing different levels [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minu
   tes.html#action09] [DROPPED]

     [31] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minutes.html#action09

   emma: Jeff any update on your other action?
   ... no news (is good news)

   <antoine> s/US/UC

   <scribe> ACTION: Jeff to integrate more refined view of
   non-resolvable URIs and linking. [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minu
   tes.html#action08] [CONTINUES]

     [32] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minutes.html#action08

   emma: we can use the rest of the time to discuss the Social UC
   ... and push the other topics to next week

   uldis: we have completed the social use case cluster , the use cases
   are completed
   ... and there are summaries

   <emma_>
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Social_Uses#Sc
   enarios_.28Case_Studies.29

     [33] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Social_Uses#Scenarios_.28Case_Studies.29

   uldis: we are looking forward to feedback and suggestions

   emma: We need to include the new stuff in the use case report, I
   don't think it's been done

   <antoine> it's done, as a draft

   uldis: Yes, I think it was there already, but it needs to be
   verified
   ... need to contact Daniel to add summary

   <emma_>
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseReport#Social_a
   nd_new_uses

     [34] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseReport#Social_and_new_uses

   emma: is this overlapping with your new pages?

   <uldis>
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseReport#Social_a
   nd_new_uses_2

     [35] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseReport#Social_and_new_uses_2

   uldis: that is the extracted summaries, possibly more of a draft
   form. The use cases are finished, but the summaries are more
   draft-ish
   ... Not a full list of use cases
   ... there are 4 that still need to be summarized

   emma: would you add these 4 to the use case report? Or would you
   prefer Daniel to do it?

   <antoine> I think Uldis and Jodi could take care of it.

   uldis: it would be good to add, if Daniel could do it, it would be a
   fresh view

   <antoine> ...I'm not sure he's really around the coming days...

   <scribe> ACTION: Uldis, Jodi and Daniel to include the Social Use
   cases to the final report [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/11-lld-minu
   tes.html#action11]

   <uldis> here are Social and Emergent Use Cases themselves:

   <uldis>
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Social_Uses#Sc
   enarios_.28Case_Studies.29

     [37] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Social_Uses#Scenarios_.28Case_Studies.29

   emma: we only have 5 minutes, so I'm not sure it's worth discussing
   the challenges and barriers section

   <uldis> there were also changes to the Social Uses Cluster page

   <uldis> mainly in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Social_Uses#Pr
   oblems_and_Limitations + relevant technologies / vocabs

     [38] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Social_Uses#Problems_and_Limitations

   antoine: There are some comments that have not been addressed, but
   that will not make it shorter

   <marcia> Linking across datasets has begun but requires further
   effort and coordination

   kcoyle: the linking across datasets is long and detailed and does
   fit into the other sections
   ... the details should be moved to the appendix

   antoine: that may actually unbalance the appendix

   kcoyle: there should be one, short explanatory paragraph for each
   point

   antoine: paragraphs around data availability won't change? or won't
   change much?

   TomB: I wanted to add that the data availability points do belong in
   that section, but they don't fit with the rest of the section
   ... it's not that i think it's too long, but it belongs there in a
   shorter form
   ... moving it to the appendix would solve the problem

   emma: any other topics for today?
   ... meeting adjourned.

   <jneubert> thanks and bye

   <marcia> thanks

   <kefo> bye

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: TomB to write the methodology paragraph [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/11-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: Uldis, Jodi and Daniel to include the Social Use cases
   to the final report [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/11-lld-minu
   tes.html#action11]

   [PENDING] ACTION: Jeff to integrate more refined view of
   non-resolvable URIs and linking. [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minu
   tes.html#action08]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Karen, Tom, Michael, and Gordon to write the
   executive summary due in two weeks. [recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minu
   tes.html#action05]

     [41] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minutes.html#action08
     [42] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minutes.html#action05

   [DONE] ACTION: Editors of each section should watch for substantial
   comments to their section [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/06/30-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06]
   [DONE] ACTION: Jodi to make an alternative transclusion [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minu
   tes.html#action04]
   [DONE] ACTION: Karen will track items from former "issues" and
   "recommendations" that belong to benefits [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minu
   tes.html#action08]
   [DONE] ACTION: Editors of BENEFITS to meet and work on the comments.
   [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/11-lld-minu
   tes.html#action07]
   [DONE] ACTION: Emma to keep track of comments through AUG. 11
   [recorded in [recorded in
   [47]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/11-lld-minu
   tes.html#action03]

     [43] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/06/30-lld-minutes.html#action06
     [44] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html#action04
     [45] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html#action08

   [DROPPED] ACTION: everybody to scrutinize the relevant technologies
   to solve the issue of mixing different levels [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minu
   tes.html#action09]

     [48] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minutes.html#action09

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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