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Re: Sample SOAP message on the wire with Reference Properties and Parameters (without a wrapper!)

From: Christopher B Ferris <chrisfer@us.ibm.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 08:00:06 -0500
To: Mark Baker <distobj@acm.org>
Cc: public-ws-addressing@w3.org
Message-ID: <OF38ECFC3A.C1555AA6-ON85256F56.00624E5C-85256F57.00476BA4@us.ibm.com>

Mark,

Does this address identify me?

Occupant
57 Kerry Lane
Whitinsville, Ma 01588-0366

No, it does not. It is an address. Nothing more than an address. It could 
equally apply to me, my wife, my
son or daughter or the people who move in after we sell the house.

As for whether I meant ref params, no, I meant ref props. Many use cookies 
to identify the session
to which the exchange belongs. Yeah, yeah... I know, I know, but it hasn't 
broken the web yet.

I agree that reasonable people can disagree, but that in fact is all the 
more reason to 
permit both styles of interaction.

Cheers,

Christopher Ferris
STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
email: chrisfer@us.ibm.com
blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
phone: +1 508 377 9295

Mark Baker <distobj@acm.org> wrote on 11/24/2004 12:04:56 PM:

> Chris,
> 
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2004 at 11:01:20AM -0500, Christopher B Ferris wrote:
> > Mark,
> > 
> > Please see Paco's recent missive[1]... the EPR is NOT an identifier, 
it is 
> > an addressable reference.
> 
> Well, I don't want to get into that because I disagree with Paco; a
> reference is an identifier (including the snail mail address written
> on an envelope).  My concern though, was just that I wasn't sure if the
> WG had reached concensus on one position, which is why I described what
> I felt a self-descriptive message would require from the POV of some of
> the different perspectives I've heard on this issue.
> 
> > The ref props/params *can* be used to provide additional information 
that 
> > the service provider will use
> > as it sees fit. One such purpose that has been used by WS-RF has been 
to 
> > pass keys/identifiers to 
> > resources (implied resource pattern) as ref props, but that is not the 

> > only use of ref props/params.
> > In the context of the implied resource pattern, the ref props 
serialized 
> > as SOAP headers can be
> > considered the equivalent of cookies used to associate a stateful 
session, 
> > like a shopping cart service
> > might do.
> 
> Do you mean reference *parameters*?  I thought those were, roughly, the
> equivalent of cookies in WS-A?  The submission seems to back me up on
> that with its description of properties and parameters;
> 
>   "A reference may contain a number of individual properties that are
>    required to identify the entity or resource being conveyed."
> 
>   "A reference may contain a number of individual parameters which are
>    associated with the endpoint to facilitate a particular interaction."
> 
>   -- 
http://www.w3.org/Submission/2004/SUBM-ws-addressing-20040810/#_Toc77464318
> 
> > As an example that is often used, a service might have three levels of 

> > service; silver, gold and platinum.
> > Each level of service might have a different policy that applies. 
Hence, I 
> > would use the ref props to 
> > include a <myservice:MembershipLevel> element with the possible values 

> > Silver, Gold, or Platinum.
> > Is that identity? Nope. 
> 
> Reasonable people could disagree about that and choose to publish
> different identifiers for each class of service.  There are tradeoffs
> with each approach, of course, but I don't think one can assert that
> this information is not identifying information since it can clearly
> be used as such.
> 
> Mark.
> -- 
> Mark Baker.   Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA.        http://www.markbaker.ca
Received on Thursday, 25 November 2004 13:00:19 GMT

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