W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webplatform@w3.org > December 2012

Minutes: Community Telcon, 04-12-2012

From: Chris Mills <cmills@opera.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:26:12 +0000
Message-Id: <4D98348F-684E-4C1E-A2F0-A391CBF9168E@opera.com>
To: "public-webplatform@w3.org" <public-webplatform@w3.org>
Present: Chris Mills, Garbee, NotTomato, Julee B, Peter Lubbers, Scott Rowe, Dave Gash, Doug Schepers, Randy Nielsen

Actions completed

* ACTION: Doug S: Set Peter up with permissions to write blog post on Webplatform.org
DONE
* ACTION, Doug S: Write up guide on how to do translations by hand (carried over)
DONE - see http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Translations. Improve and give comment!
NOTE from Garbee - should probably go in WPD:Editors_Guide/translations
* ACTION, Peter L: Follow up with evangelization of WPD docsprint at Google
DONE - blog post published yesterday
* ACTION, Julee: Send around mail about Wednesday Content TF meeting, and send around Doodle poll to agree on better time for Content TF meetings
DONE: Julee did the former, Chris M did the latter
* ACTION, Chris M: Work on milestones and roles for upcoming important tasks - make wiki page, then list 10 or so milestones that we really need to do; also encourage others to add their own.
DONE - http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Task_Roadmap. It'll do for now

Actions carried forward

* ACTION, Doug S: Write up proposal for usage of data from caniuse, quirks mode, etc. on Wiki, and send link to list (carried over)
* ACTION, all: Make our internal company teams aware of the doc sprint, and get interested parties to sign up and contribute
* ACTION, Doug S: Approach Event Apart folks about doing WPD doc sprints to tie into their events.
NOTE: Doug already in conversation with Eric Meyer about W3Conf. Will talk to him
* ACTION, Doug S: Make more progress towards hosting Webplatform skin on GitHub
NOTE: needs to talk to Ryan about the best way to do this.
* ACTION, Doug S: Post a proposal to the list about best solution for duplicate title problem
NOTE: needs to talk to Ryan about best way to fix this as well.
* ACTION, Peter L: Create doc sprint in a Box package for docsprints
NOTE: progress made, see http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Doc_Sprints and http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Community/Community_Events. Needs to be collated, re-orged, finished.
* ACTION, Garbee: Continue working on solution for issue/bug tracking, as we really need a better way to do this.
NOTE: Garbee:http://webplatform.jonathangarbee.com/thebuggenie/
* ACTION, Doug S: Send summary to mailing list of everything he can find to do with statistics
NOTE: :not done yet, carry this one over to next week
* ACTION, Alex K: Implement attributes/actions stuff (carried over)
* ACTION: Paul I: Do further investigation into feasibility of markdown tool (carried over)

New actions

ACTION, all: look at the doc sprint pages, give peter feedback
ACTION, Doug: follow up with Ryna about the session handling/login issues - most urgent bug right now
ACTION, NotTomato: Follow up with Doug on creating the new user group, and getting the templates user groups sorted
ACTION, Desbenoit: sort out Windows font bug, see https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19369
ACTION, Chris M: find better things to link the front page bullets to. Video is a possibility, in the near future, perhaps
ACTION, Chris M: write up formalization of mentors, padawans, badges, etc. Create a formal proposal.

Raw transcript

[5:08pm]chrismills:Actions from last week
[5:08pm]chrismills:ACTION, Doug S: Write up proposal for usage of data from caniuse, quirks mode, etc. on Wiki, and send link to list (carried over)
[5:08pm]shepazu:Topic: Actions from last week
[5:08pm]chrismills:Doug's action not finished yet
[5:09pm]chrismills:still working on it
[5:09pm]chrismills:ACTION, Doug S: Write up guide on how to do translations by hand (carried over)
[5:09pm]shepazu:http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Translations
[5:09pm]chrismills:first draft done - discuss later
[5:09pm]chrismills:ACTION, Peter L: Follow up with evangelization of WPD docsprint at Google (carried over)
[5:09pm]chrismills:done, blog post posted yersterday
[5:09pm]Garbee:Should probably go into WPD:Editors_Guide/translations . --The Translation guide.
[5:09pm]chrismills:and on Google+
[5:10pm]chrismills:ACTION, Peter L: Write blog posts about next doc sprint on Dec 12th in Mountain View, continue organization for this
[5:10pm]chrismills:these were combined into same blog post, both done
[5:10pm]chrismills:Doug S: Set Peter up with permissions to write blog post on Webplatform.org
[5:11pm]chrismills:ACTION, Doug S: Set Peter up with permissions to write blog post on Webplatform.org
[5:11pm]chrismills:done - Peter now able to post!
[5:11pm] David_Bradbury joined the chat room.
[5:11pm]chrismills:ACTION, all: Make our internal company teams aware of the doc sprint, and get interested parties to sign up and contribute
[5:11pm]chrismills:ongoing - try to get as many people involved as possible!
[5:12pm]chrismills:ACTION, Doug S: Approach Event Apart/Web directions folks about doing WPD doc sprints to tie into their events. (carried over, Doug has already started a conversation with John Allsopp, AEA folks still to be approached)
[5:12pm]chrismills:Doug already in conversation with Eric Meyer, so will ask him
[5:12pm]Garbee:Because we are disorganized.
[5:12pm]chrismills:ACTION, Doug S: Make more progress towards hosting Webplatform skin on GitHub (carried over, Doug has made progess on this, but needs to confer with Alex about best way to do this; Fr0zenice has looked at some of this stuff as well, in terms of what he wants to help with)
[5:12pm]Garbee:Paul Irish.  But he isn't here.
[5:13pm]chrismills:who is awesome at Github? Who wants to help Doug? Come forward!
[5:13pm]chrismills:Doug will follow up with Ryan about this as a next step, because he needs to
[5:13pm]chrismills:ACTION, Doug S: Post a proposal to the list about best solution for duplicate title problem (carried over: progress made, plugin worked on, but Doug needs to wait for Ryan to get back off vacation to check that this will work)
[5:14pm]chrismills:Again, Doug needs to talk to Ryan about this
[5:14pm]chrismills:ACTION, Peter L: Create doc sprint in a Box package for docsprints (carried over: Still needs to be finished, but progress has been made, Andre from Adobe helped him out)
[5:14pm]chrismills:Update - Peter has made progress on this
[5:14pm]chrismills:collected some stuff together
[5:14pm]jswisher:is there a link for doc-sprint-in-a-box?
[5:14pm]chrismills:there are some pages on this already, but these need to be collated and sorted out
[5:15pm] desbenoit joined the chat room.
[5:15pm]Garbee:No problem.
[5:15pm]Garbee:http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Community/Community_Events
[5:15pm]chrismills:Peter also getting ready to restructure the relevant pages
[5:16pm]chrismills:moving forward nicely
[5:16pm]Garbee:http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Doc_Sprints
[5:16pm]Garbee:Any other links relevent to docsprints?
[5:16pm]chrismills:ACTION: look at the doc sprint pages, give peter feedback
[5:16pm] julee_ left the chat room. (Quit: Good Night and Good Luck -Edward R. Murrow)
[5:16pm]chrismills:ACTION: think about where to link this stuff from; we want to make it easy to find
[5:17pm]chrismills:ACTION, Garbee: Continue working on solution for issue/bug tracking, as we really need a better way to do this.
[5:17pm]Garbee:http://webplatform.jonathangarbee.com/thebuggenie/
[5:17pm]chrismills:Garbee has done a lot of work on this - see link for demo of Bug Genie
[5:17pm]Garbee:http://webplatform.jonathangarbee.com/thebuggenie/
[5:18pm]chrismills:ACTION: please look over and give feedback
[5:18pm]chrismills:ACTION, Julee: Send around mail about Wednesday Content TF meeting, and send around Doodle poll to agree on better time for Content TF meetings
[5:18pm]chrismills:It ended up being me who send the doodle poll
[5:19pm]chrismills:http://doodle.com/m3hhxdi758ace4ac?
[5:19pm]chrismills:Doug not filled in 
[5:19pm]chrismills:hint hint 
[5:19pm]Garbee:http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webplatform/2012Dec/0007.html  --This poll?
[5:19pm]chrismills:ACTION, Chris M: Work on milestones and roles for upcoming important tasks - make wiki page, then list 10 or so milestones that we really need to do; also encourage others to add their own. Things to definitely put on there - session handling issues, recruiting specific content contributors (to work on CSS, JS, etc.), dealing with spam
[5:19pm]chrismills:done, not best thing in world, but it will work for now
[5:19pm] cgoodman joined the chat room.
[5:20pm]chrismills:ACTION, Doug S: Send summary to mailing list of everything he can find to do with statistics
[5:20pm]chrismills:not done yet, carry this one over to next week
[5:20pm] mstalfoort left the chat room. (Quit: kthxbai)
[5:20pm] cgoodman left the chat room.
[5:20pm]chrismills:Next topic: THE GODDAMN SESSION ISSUES
[5:20pm]chrismills:(the small issue)
[5:21pm]chrismills:Ryan upgrading us to next version of MediaWiki
[5:21pm]chrismills:Garbee reports this has been done already
[5:21pm]chrismills:but it still doesn't appear to have fixed the session issues
[5:22pm]Garbee:{CENSOR}  fracking session issues.
[5:22pm]chrismills:ACTION: Doug to follow up with Ryan
[5:22pm]NotTomato:Is the spam topic over because I work on spam control for the wiki and I wrote filters to mark bad edits. I look out for new spam and write filters around them but there really hasn't been any on the wiki: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter
[5:22pm]NotTomato:I don't think you guys have to worry about any spam on the wiki itself.
[5:22pm]Garbee:NotTomato, Spam hasn't started yet.
[5:22pm]NotTomato:Oh okay.
[5:22pm]chrismills:we'll discuss that one retroactively 
[5:23pm]chrismills:Peter - would be nice to get session issues sorted out by next doc sprint
[5:23pm]chrismills:Next action: spam
[5:23pm] cgoodman joined the chat room.
[5:24pm]chrismills:Next action: template lockdown
[5:24pm]chrismills:Garbee: it is confusing whether this is wiki or documentation engine. if the former, then lockdown unacceptable. if the latter, then lockdown ok
[5:25pm]chrismills:shepazu: is this a useful distinction?
[5:25pm]chrismills:Garbee: is it an open community editing system, or a closed doc system?
[5:26pm]chrismills:Scott Rowe - agrees with Doug. Still doesn't think this is useful
[5:26pm]NotTomato:I guess what I'm curious about is if the templates are meant to be improved.
[5:27pm]chrismills:shepazu: if templates are edited, we risk misrepresentation and corruption of data
[5:27pm]chrismills:if someone makes a bad change, we can change it back
[5:28pm]chrismills:this is the wikipedia model
[5:28pm]chrismills:but wikipedia is pretty shallow
[5:28pm] julee_ joined the chat room.
[5:28pm]chrismills:and the templates are much simpler than the ones we are using
[5:29pm]chrismills:shepazu: Ryan Lane was one of the people who thought we should lock this down
[5:29pm]chrismills:NotTomato: do we want the templates improved?
[5:29pm]Garbee:I think at this point we shouldn't worry about vandalism.
[5:29pm]chrismills:scottrowe: one reason for locking down is so that we can have more control during this period of trying to fix bugs and sort out template problems
[5:30pm]chrismills:shepazu: Alex had telcon about template core, and how to get them improved
[5:30pm]chrismills:we are happy to give permissions to anyone who is committed and wants to edit the template
[5:31pm]chrismills:NotTomato: should we create a new user group - template editors?
[5:31pm]chrismills:shepazu: yes, that sounds like a good idea. But can we do that in mediawiki?
[5:32pm]chrismills:shepazu: if the issue is people being allowed to edit the templates, rather than the templates being locked down at all, then it is a non issue
[5:32pm]chrismills:shepazu: we just need to trust the template editors, make sure they know what they are doing, and make sure changes are discussed first
[5:32pm]chrismills:is that ok?
[5:32pm]chrismills:NotTomato: yes
[5:33pm]chrismills:ACTION: NotTomato to follow up with Doug on creating the new user group, and getting the templates user groups sorted
[5:33pm]chrismills:shepazu: Alex and others were inexperienced at making templates when we first started this thing, so maybe the ones we have are not the best
[5:34pm]chrismills:shepazu: open call - if you have a better way of organizing them/writing them, please feel empowered
[5:34pm]chrismills:and go ahead
[5:34pm] wpdbot left the chat room. (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:34pm] wpdbot joined the chat room.
[5:36pm]chrismills:shepazu: we should also talk at the end of the call about how the community feels about the empowerment issue - we want the community to feel able to do stuff, and not feel locked out
[5:36pm]chrismills:NotTomato and Garbee happy with template resolution
[5:36pm]Garbee:We need to simply make it clear how to be able to edit the templates.
[5:37pm]chrismills:Next topic: anonymous editing
[5:37pm]Garbee:We will figure that out later though.
[5:37pm]chrismills:Garbee : a number of people have contacted Garbee and NotTomato asking about being able to edit the wiki anonymously
[5:38pm]chrismills:there are a number of cases in which someone would want to make changes anonymously
[5:38pm]chrismills:Scott, Doug, Eliot are all sceptical
[5:38pm]peterlubbers:chrismlls: related to the earlier action item. My proposal was to Proposal is to move
[5:38pm]peterlubbers:http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Doc_Sprints
[5:38pm]peterlubbers:to:
[5:38pm]peterlubbers:http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Community
[5:38pm]chrismills:Julee - has a question about what the effect on quality would be
[5:38pm]chrismills:me/ thanks Peter
[5:39pm]•chrismills thanks Peter
[5:39pm]chrismills:SCott - MDN successful because people were trustworthy and responsible
[5:39pm]chrismills:it would be interesting to find out from Janet if MDN ever considered anonymous editing?
[5:40pm]Garbee:For me it has only been four people.
[5:40pm]chrismills:shepazu: big question - how many people exactly have requested this?
[5:40pm]chrismills:only reason to allow them to do anonymous editing would be to allow them to edit using a user account
[5:40pm]julee_:Another question: is reluctance to login because of the login problems?
[5:41pm]chrismills:Peter - it's a collaborative site, we want to be able to communicate with people about their edits
[5:41pm]chrismills:oops, Scott, not Peter
[5:42pm]chrismills:Eliot - how about making it so that reporting an issue doesn't require registration, but editing does?
[5:42pm]chrismills:shepazu: this is currently not the case
[5:42pm]chrismills:it was originally like this because of spam
[5:42pm]chrismills:but this is not so much of a problem now, due to NotTomato's excellent spam filtering stuff
[5:43pm]chrismills:shepazu: also concerned about the quality issue
[5:43pm]chrismills:shepazu: is an editor on Wikipedia. There have been a couple of instances recently
[5:43pm]chrismills:there was a page on collision detection, but not hit testing, so Doug went and added it
[5:43pm]chrismills:people edited it and it was ok
[5:44pm]chrismills:but then an anonymous editor came along and totally screwed the page up
[5:44pm]chrismills:and Doug didn't notice for about a year
[5:44pm]chrismills:and then found it was being considered a candidate for deletion
[5:44pm]chrismills:because of this anonymous person's mistake
[5:45pm]chrismills:and it was impossible to find them to talk to them about it
[5:45pm]NotTomato:You can talk to anonymous users, they have talk pages, and they will see you messaging them on the top of the wiki if you use it.
[5:45pm]chrismills:very frustrating
[5:45pm]chrismills:we need to work on building up a community
[5:46pm]Ryan_Lane:eh? I didn't upgrade mediawiki yet
[5:46pm]Ryan_Lane:that's scheduled for tomorrow
[5:46pm]NotTomato:I still says it's version 1.20 for me. o;
[5:46pm]Garbee:Tomato, who updated what last night?
[5:46pm]chrismills:Scott - we don't have enough hands on board to see these problems yet perhaps?
[5:47pm]NotTomato:I just assumed they did but then I looked at the version and it's still at the older one.
[5:47pm]Garbee:Ryan_Lane, Sorry, miscommunication.
[5:47pm]chrismills:let's not think about solutions to problems that have not happened yet
[5:48pm]chrismills:Scott - we should think about this problem until after more pressing things have been sorted out, like the sessions/login difficulties
[5:48pm]chrismills:shepazu: there will always be people who will have a problem with creating accounts
[5:49pm]chrismills:but is there a significant enough number that this will be a problem?
[5:49pm]chrismills:Julee - this is probably largely due to the fact that logging in is really difficult now anyway
[5:49pm]chrismills:So resolution for now - let's leave this for now, and come back to it in the future?
[5:50pm]chrismills:Garbee - is ok by that. One interesting point is that the Q&A allows anonymous answers
[5:51pm]chrismills:shepazu: would it still be a barrier if we had login on the Q&A, but we had login, and SSO working well, etc.
[5:51pm]chrismills:Conclusion for now - we won't allow anonymous editing yet. We will fix our major problems with login and stuff first
[5:52pm]Garbee:https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19369
[5:53pm]chrismills:NotTomato: font issue on Windows is low hanging fruit that annoys people
[5:53pm]chrismills:desbenoit was looking at this issue
[5:53pm]chrismills:ACTION: desbenoit to sort this out. He has identified it as a font issue, and will sort it out asap
[5:54pm]chrismills:Garbee: note that MW not upgraded yet
[5:55pm]Garbee:https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20237
[5:55pm]Garbee:^^This chat bug should be discussed this week.
[5:55pm]chrismills:Next topic - chris wanted changes made to front page
[5:56pm]scottrowe:Bugs: What about search? I saw some activity in BZ last week...
[5:56pm]Garbee:scottrowe, Search dealing with what?
[5:56pm]Garbee:I'm lost.
[5:56pm]julee_:Here's the URL for the doodle poll for the content meetings: http://www.doodle.com/m3hhxdi758ace4ac
[5:56pm]chrismills:shepazu: didn't like my suggestion of changing the bullets on front page, but did like the suggestion of adding blurb to the front page
[5:57pm]chrismills:ACTION: Chris, find better things to link the front page bullets to. Video is a possibility, in the near future, perhaps
[5:57pm]chrismills:Next topic - how the community feels about the empowerment issue - we want the community to feel able to do stuff, and not feel locked out
[5:58pm]chrismills:NotTomato: still thinks it would be better if we unlocked everything, but thinks having permissions available for those that want t is acceptable
[5:59pm]chrismills:shepazu: we had the idea in the stewards call about a mentoring system for us to share our skills between people
[6:00pm]chrismills:it would be good to share info, and provide proof that people are qualified in doing various things, such as templating
[6:00pm]chrismills:share the skills between people
[6:00pm]chrismills:shepazu: how does this sound to the volunteers out there?
[6:01pm]chrismills:NotTomato, Garbee: sounds like a great idea
[6:01pm]desbenoit:I does sound good to me, too
[6:01pm]chrismills:Garbee: there was talk about a badge system prelaunch. This would tie in well
[6:02pm]chrismills:Action:desbenoit make some badges for the site - template editor, editor, icon designer
[6:02pm]Ryan_Lane:when we can release our salt configuration, we'll be able to set up a test/dev infrastructure in wikimedia labs, which would allow volunteers to start doing ops tasks, too
[6:02pm]Garbee:Ryan_Lane, Any kind of timeframe for that?
[6:03pm]Ryan_Lane:before I left for vacation I started working on setting up gerrit, which would host the repo
[6:03pm]Ryan_Lane:(it would also let us sync to github)
[6:03pm]Ryan_Lane:I can try to have gerrit up by next week
[6:03pm]Garbee:Ok.  I would like to see that done by the end of January.  It has been a major request.
[6:03pm]chrismills:this also makes it easier to find out who would be best to approach about doing a task, such as editing a template
[6:03pm]Garbee:The sooner the better, but with the Christmas Hiatus.
[6:04pm]chrismills:Julee - we could have a single page to allow people to find out others
[6:04pm]Ryan_Lane:we need another ops person 
[6:04pm]chrismills:sorted by skills and individuals
[6:04pm]Garbee:Ryan_Lane, I am ops newb, but I can try.
[6:04pm] cgoodman left the chat room. (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[6:05pm]chrismills:Action: Chris: write up formalization of mentors, padawans, badges, etc. Create a formal proposal.
[6:05pm] cgoodman_ joined the chat room.
[6:05pm]Ryan_Lane:I need to talk to shepazu about things
[6:05pm]chrismills:Action: Ryan - talk to Shepazu 
[6:06pm]Ryan_Lane:
[6:06pm]Garbee:Someone needs to make sure Padawan is not trademarked by Lucasarts.
[6:06pm]chrismills:Garbee: Disney?
[6:06pm]Garbee:Nah, Lucas.
[6:06pm]Garbee:Disney bought rights to do movies.
[6:07pm]chrismills:If we get sued, it'll be great publicity
[6:07pm]Garbee:My dad owns a comic shop, I know that deal well by now.
[6:07pm]chrismills:MEETING FINITO! Thanks all 
[6:07pm]shepazu:Ryan_Lane: here I am!
[6:07pm]

Chris Mills
Open standards evangelist and dev.opera.com editor, Opera Software
Co-chair, web education community group, W3C
Author of "Practical CSS3: Develop and Design" (http://my.opera.com/chrismills/blog/2012/07/12/practical-css3-my-book-is-finally-published)

* Try Opera: http://www.opera.com
* Learn about the latest open standards technologies and techniques: http://dev.opera.com
* Contribute to web education: http://www.w3.org/community/webed/

On 3 Dec 2012, at 23:30, Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org> wrote:

> Hi, folks-
> 
> Our telcon this week will be at the regular time, on Tuesday 27 November, at 17:00 UTC / 12:00 ET / 9:00 PT, on the regular phone line and IRC channel [1].
> 
> I'll chair the call... can I get a volunteer to scribe?
> 
> Agenda:
> * Review of open action items
> * Session issues
> * Other outstanding priority bugs
> * Template lock-down
> * Anonymous editing
> * Any other topics?
> 
> [1] http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Meetings
> 
> Regards-
> -Doug Schepers
> W3C Developer Relations Lead
> 
Received on Tuesday, 4 December 2012 20:26:52 UTC

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