W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webpayments@w3.org > September 2014

Re: Building Linked Data into the Core of the Web

From: Tim Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:24:05 +1000
Cc: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>, Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>, Web Payments CG <public-webpayments@w3.org>
Message-Id: <7BADCECE-DC62-43B4-A9D3-3D17376BE374@gmail.com>
To: Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com>

On 20 Sep 2014, at 5:04 am, Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think there is a difference between the web as Tim Berners-Lee envisioned it and the web as it is (or perceived). To be honest, until a couple of years ago I did not even know Tim Berners-Lee existed, but I knew that the web did. 
> 
> 
> -Brent Shambaugh
> 
> Website: bshambaugh.org
> 

Arguably; TimBL’s brilliance was not simply his work with respect to the establishment of WWW, but rather, his attitude to the field of science that has been a lifelong endeavour for himself personally, of which we garnish leadership, hopefully a web we want, etc.

Therein; if it was simply that he stopped work in the early 90’s, then perhaps you still wouldn’t know who he is.  Therein, is not simply the work but the field of science, the philosophical attitude in which the science is undertaken - and the fertile grounds in which we, as teams, communities, can forge better opportunities for those who USE TECHNOLOGY rather than simply building it.

In some ways, it’s a bit like the copyright problem - where popular media seemingly presents a case that copyright is simply a problem for films, music and other finished media. 

when in fact the term ‘commercial behaviour’ is used to justify all sorts of rather evil, damaging conduct upon a basis of risk-analysis that essentially sorts out who can do something about it; and the rest of us, in each situation for which these forms of behaviours are exhibited.

Then beyond this simple concept; become the machinations of a ‘knowledge economy’.   therein, the science through application becomes far more complex and these simple, sociologically accepted act of ‘commercial behaviour’ can, and do - become far more meaningful.

Bringing this back to TimBL; well, whilst his one of many - the web is his life.  Vint Cerf, another good example.  These people act with a form of guardianship around issues, that are extremely complex.  

All those people, fighting over a ‘golden goose’ that will never exist long enough to help anyone, if they’re not in control of it, undertaking such endeavours as a form of ‘duty’ to their role as ‘agent’.

Fact is, there are no gooses laying golden eggs.  their’s just people.  at some stage, people need to consider science vs. ideology or some other behaviourally navigable decision tree that seems to them, to be more important than science.

yet equally; this is a new form of science.  It’s ‘Web Science’.  This community evolves, the links, know-how, concepts bringing this understanding together via media such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_2YWiaPJ6A and http://www.w3.org/2007/09/map/main.jpg was not sourced from TimBL, but rather - Melvin.  

If we’re going to scale, have a think about how we’re going to get the millions of web-developers feeling comfortable with experimenting, with systems, they may know exist - but haven’t found any good reason, any compelling reason - to go build something that’ll help users.

i mean, reality is - tell me how you show someone how to create a FOAF profile / rww.io account (with FOAF profile?) 

Oh; and to make a form - that allows someone to get their details all filled out.  Or, to create an oauth system, that drags data from Web2 portals into an LDP system - how hard is that?

or - play on a common platform - so the lands of turtle and json-ld can co-exist in a demonstrated way.  

Then; when we started getting further into it - you tell me how to convince people that open-standards are better for building these systems, than proprietary systems.  find an easy way to describe to people the issues of ‘lock-ins’ with data.

perhaps simply make an iWATCH app, that turns siri on when your blood pressure become elevated; does some text-to-spwach, then builds a database of ‘what types of things really upset you’, just to help those who believe in the before mentioned grey areas of ‘commercial behaviour’.//


> On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 3:35 AM, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> On 19 September 2014 03:49, Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com> wrote:
> On 09/14/2014 04:58 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
> > It is misleading (albeit inadvertent in regards to your post above)
> > to infer that Linked Data isn't already the core of the Web. The
> > absolute fact of the matter is that Linked Data has been the core of
> > the Web since it was an idea [1][2].
> 
> Well, that's one of the points I make at the beginning of the talk. I
> also mention that saying "Linked Data" is part of the core of the web is
> a bit of a cop-out. Web developers don't understand that, and until they
> do, I don't consider Linked Data as a core part of the Web in the same
> way that HTML, Javascript, and HTTP is a core part of the Web. I was not
> just coming at this from a technical standpoint, I was also making a
> statement about the general Web developer community's understanding of
> Linked Data.
> 
> Not only is linked data part of the web, it was the *motivation* for the web.  
> 
> From day 1 the proposal back in 1989 was of an information system where data is linked:
> 
> http://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html
> 
> We have a lost generation of web 2.0 developers that mostly havent seen or understood the implications of that document.  
> 
> But saying that linked data is not in the core of the web is a bit like saying anonymous functions are not in the core of JavaScript.  Now it's true that 10 years ago most JS developers would not realize the elegance of the language.  But Douglas Cockroft came along and blew that all away with his "JavaScript, the good parts".  
> 
> There are different ways to convey the message, but I think it's hard to dispute that linked data is core to the web.  
>  
> 
> > Instead, we ended up with an incomprehensible, indefensible, and at
> > best draconian narrative that has forever tainted the letters "R-D-F"
> > . And HttpRange-14 as a censorship tool (based on its ridiculous
> > history), that blurs fixing this horrible state of affairs.
> 
> +1
> 
> -- manu
> 
> --
> Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny)
> Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
> blog: The Marathonic Dawn of Web Payments
> http://manu.sporny.org/2014/dawn-of-web-payments/
> 
> 
> 
Received on Saturday, 20 September 2014 02:30:14 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 6 January 2015 21:03:39 UTC