W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webpayments@w3.org > September 2014

Re: Building Linked Data into the Core of the Web

From: Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:08:06 -0500
Message-Id: <D2258462-1474-433D-9462-8D601260B287@gmail.com>
Cc: Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>, Web Payments <public-webpayments@w3.org>
To: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
It bothered me I was not being 
webby:

 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lod/2014Sep/0070.html

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 19, 2014, at 7:55 PM, Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> This sounds similar to how I am seeing it. I tried to talk about an application (represented by a wire frame with links) on the public-lod@w3.org list in the Distributed Economy Blog thread. In it's incomplete form I hope it is of help. Concerning protocols ( or protocols about protocols as they say), I did not mention the meta currency project. They admit to be similar to Noam Chomsky's thinking. Basically basic building blocks to build everything else.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 19, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 20 September 2014 02:27, Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Perhaps the we should call it web applications?
>> 
>> The web is the discourse of humanity.
>> 
>> It goes beyond http, html etc.
>> 
>> It's about being able to describe anything about anything.
>> 
>> So it's two things rolled into one, by overloading the idea of the URI
>> 
>> One is a universal namespace, independent of any protocol or medium  -- this is the more important part
>> 
>> The same structure is what you see in the address bar of your browser to get to content and follow links -- this was the bootstrap.
>> 
>> The goal of the web was that 'anything could be connected to anything'.  CSS, JavaScript, HTML etc are just footnotes ... 
>>  
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 19, 2014, at 7:22 PM, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 19 September 2014 21:04, Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I think there is a difference between the web as Tim Berners-Lee envisioned it and the web as it is (or perceived). To be honest, until a couple of years ago I did not even know Tim Berners-Lee existed, but I knew that the web did. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the 90's I knew about AOL because they provided internet, and I wanted it because of all the cool things provided with it. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the late 90's I learned about Linux because there was a smart kid that used it and was enthusiastic about it. Unfortunately I did not use it till later because I was a bit afraid of tux the penguin, and I did not think I was good at math, nor did I believe I was smart enough to figure it out.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In college some kids said that I should try out Facebook. It looked impressive, I was excited to reconnect with old friends, and I had no clue how it might work.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think it is all about perception. Once people see linked data for what it can do (and are enthusiastic about it), and believe they can use it, then they will.
>>>> 
>>>> Totally agree.
>>>> 
>>>> But the general perception of the web is that it's about web "pages".  
>>>> 
>>>> That's like saying that art is perceived to be about paintings.
>>>> 
>>>> There's so much more to it.
>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Brent Shambaugh
>>>>> 
>>>>> Website: bshambaugh.org
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 3:35 AM, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 19 September 2014 03:49, Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 09/14/2014 04:58 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>>>>>>> > It is misleading (albeit inadvertent in regards to your post above)
>>>>>>> > to infer that Linked Data isn't already the core of the Web. The
>>>>>>> > absolute fact of the matter is that Linked Data has been the core of
>>>>>>> > the Web since it was an idea [1][2].
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Well, that's one of the points I make at the beginning of the talk. I
>>>>>>> also mention that saying "Linked Data" is part of the core of the web is
>>>>>>> a bit of a cop-out. Web developers don't understand that, and until they
>>>>>>> do, I don't consider Linked Data as a core part of the Web in the same
>>>>>>> way that HTML, Javascript, and HTTP is a core part of the Web. I was not
>>>>>>> just coming at this from a technical standpoint, I was also making a
>>>>>>> statement about the general Web developer community's understanding of
>>>>>>> Linked Data.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Not only is linked data part of the web, it was the *motivation* for the web.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From day 1 the proposal back in 1989 was of an information system where data is linked:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We have a lost generation of web 2.0 developers that mostly havent seen or understood the implications of that document.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But saying that linked data is not in the core of the web is a bit like saying anonymous functions are not in the core of JavaScript.  Now it's true that 10 years ago most JS developers would not realize the elegance of the language.  But Douglas Cockroft came along and blew that all away with his "JavaScript, the good parts".  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There are different ways to convey the message, but I think it's hard to dispute that linked data is core to the web.  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> > Instead, we ended up with an incomprehensible, indefensible, and at
>>>>>>> > best draconian narrative that has forever tainted the letters "R-D-F"
>>>>>>> > . And HttpRange-14 as a censorship tool (based on its ridiculous
>>>>>>> > history), that blurs fixing this horrible state of affairs.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- manu
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny)
>>>>>>> Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
>>>>>>> blog: The Marathonic Dawn of Web Payments
>>>>>>> http://manu.sporny.org/2014/dawn-of-web-payments/
>> 
Received on Saturday, 20 September 2014 01:08:37 UTC

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