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Re: Finding complete processes

From: Shadi Abou-Zahra <shadi@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 07:36:43 +0100
Message-ID: <4ED871FB.60800@w3.org>
To: public-wai-evaltf@w3.org
I think the question is how essential these external resources are to 
complete a task/process, rather than how they are referenced.

A good example is providing directions using only an external mapping 
service. IMO this would be essential to include in the evaluation.

In this case it may also not matter how often this service is used by 
other websites as long as it is an essential part of the website.

Regards,
   Shadi


On 2.12.2011 06:30, Vivienne CONWAY wrote:
> Hi Wilko
>
> You pose some interesting questions that I've been thinking about recently also.
>
> For instance, you have a website that has links to YouTube videos demonstrating an interesting technique etc.  In the case I'm thinking of, the video clips are captioned, but don't have sign language.  They would therefore be AA but not AA compliant (as well as everything else about them was okay).  However, as you're only providing a link to them, but not embedding them, would this even apply?  If it does apply, then the problem is that you are linking directly to YouTube and would need to include that website (Yikes!) in your scope.
>
> My thoughts (for what it's worth) is that as you're providing a link, but not embedding the video, you would not need to provide sign language.  However, I am as always, open to your suggestions.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons)
> PhD Candidate&  Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.
> Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.
> v.conway@ecu.edu.au
> v.conway@webkeyit.com
> Mob: 0415 383 673
>
> This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original message.
> ________________________________________
> From: Wilco Fiers [w.fiers@accessibility.nl]
> Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 7:27 PM
> To: Velleman, Eric; Martijn Houtepen; Alistair Garrison; Eval TF; KerstinProbiesch
> Subject: RE: Finding complete processes
>
> Hey Eric / all,
>
> I think the question might actually answer it's self. Since the scope of the evaluation is a complete websites (we decided the methodology was to evaluate websites, not just parts of a website), if a process is part of the website, then therefore it should be included in the scope of the evaluation. I'm a big fan of using the strictest interpretation of the definition of process. Which it seems to me has two parts to it, first of is that there is a required action. Some very specific thing must occure, such as submiting a specific for, or activating a specific link or button (note that I'm not saying clicking it, because there are other ways to activate a link). Secondly, something is only a process if there is more then one required actions, to get a specific outcome. That is, something which can only be achieved by doing these required actions.
>
> An interesting consequence of requiring complete processes to be accessible, is that a single web page, if it is part of a process, can be part of multiple websites. An online payment system such as Paypal for example. Pages on paypal.com can easilly be a used in processes originating from many different websites. Since the pages on which such processes start are clearly part of those websites (and not for instance Paypal), and WCAG 2 doesn't allow us to say these pages are conform, unless the rest of the process conforms as well, the Paypal pages must be included in the scope of the evaluation. Otherwise we can't make the claim that all web pages of a given website are conform WCAG 2.
>
> Considering that, I think that an interesting question to answer is; are there other examples of web pages that can be part of multiple websites? I'd be in favor of making this the only exception, and for all other pages to have a many-to-one relationship with a website. That might take some work to define this properly, but it seems to make intuitive sence.
>
> That was a bit longer then I intended, sorry, interesting stuff! I can't help it.
>
> Wilco
>
>
> ________________________________________
> Van: Velleman, Eric [evelleman@bartimeus.nl]
> Verzonden: donderdag 1 december 2011 10:40
> Aan: Martijn Houtepen; Alistair Garrison; Eval TF; KerstinProbiesch
> Onderwerp: RE: Finding complete processes
>
> Yes!
> But is a game/complete process always part of the scope if it is on a website? Can we include or exclude parts?
> Kindest regards,
>
> Eric
>
>
> ________________________________________
> Van: Martijn Houtepen [m.houtepen@accessibility.nl]
> Verzonden: woensdag 30 november 2011 10:01
> Aan: Alistair Garrison; Eval TF; Kerstin Probiesch
> Onderwerp: RE: Finding complete processes
>
> Hi All,
>
> I agree. I think a predefined way of navigating, leading to a goal of some kind (a download for example) could be regarded a 'complete process' as well. In the case of point-and-click adventure games, the whole game will be a 'complete process'.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Martijn
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Alistair Garrison [mailto:alistair.j.garrison@gmail.com]
> Verzonden: woensdag 30 november 2011 9:36
> Aan: Eval TF; Kerstin Probiesch
> Onderwerp: Re: Finding complete processes
>
> Hi All,
>
> Just adding to my previous mail.
>
> The simplest way to find complete processes might be to search (scan) the site for forms (excluding those in every page i.e. search)... Saying that, search (and other 'on every page' forms) probably should be included once as a complete process.
>
> Again, all the best
>
> Alistair
>
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>
> CRICOS IPC 00279B
>
>

-- 
Shadi Abou-Zahra - http://www.w3.org/People/shadi/
Activity Lead, W3C/WAI International Program Office
Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group (ERT WG)
Research and Development Working Group (RDWG)
Received on Friday, 2 December 2011 06:37:12 GMT

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