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Re: [Proposal] schema:OnlineCourse

From: Vicki Tardif Holland <vtardif@google.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 11:52:10 -0500
Message-ID: <CAOr1obE9nKSYpUr1U6Q+Ta=8uKJNHFoDOFvNRGEYr=_NK3-u8A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Steve Midgley <steve.midgley@mixrun.com>
Cc: Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk>, W3C Vocabularies <public-vocabs@w3.org>
All of the discussion has been useful.

I'll send out an updated proposal after the new year.

Regards,
Vicki


Vicki Tardif Holland | Ontologist | vtardif@google.com


On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Steve Midgley <steve.midgley@mixrun.com>
wrote:

> Jumping in pretty late here, but here a couple of vocab points:
>
>    - It is useful to identify whether or not you have to physically be
>    present in a specific location in order to take the course (that's a key
>    distinction I think is worth describing in the "online vs offline"
>    discussion).
>    - location: [https://schema.org/location]
>       - This would be in addition to any URL to the course which would
>       help online users access the course.
>       - Some courses may have a physical location and an online url. Some
>       courses may have multiple physical locations.
>    - It is useful to know whether you have to start or finish the course
>    by a certain date. Thing>Event models this pretty well, and I think Phil is
>    advocating for an "EducationalEvent" which may just be an Thing>Event that
>    is attached to a Course.
>
> And a couple of modeling points:
>
>    - "Course of study" or "curriculum" or "learning pathway" are all
>    equivalent for me. They link individual learning opportunities together. It
>    would be great to have a well-defined way to do this -- possibly using
>    existing linked-data approaches (outside my expertise).
>    - Course/Section are well described by CEDS and we should just use
>    their definitions. Their modeling is probably too complex for schema's
>    purposes, but it's crucial (IMO) that we permit describing specific
>    physical and online availability of a Course separate from the Course
>    itself (many offerings => one course).
>
> I hope this input is useful..
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>  Guha, everyone
>>
>> Programme / Course, yes maybe different, as discussed later in the thread.
>>
>> > Something like an edX course is very different from a high school
>> course where the student shows up in class.
>> > The former has a number of properties that don't make sense for the
>> latter. So, it needs to be a class.
>>
>> I don't think the proposal shows any real differences. The proposed
>> properties of OnlineCourse (seller, offers, previewUrl) could all apply to
>> face-to-face courses. Sure, there are the differences you mention, but
>> these are differences in the way the course is presented, CourseSessions in
>> the current proposal. Perhaps OnlineCourseSession as a subclass of
>> CourseSession would make more sense.
>>
>>  3. I think it would be better to model an instance of a Course as a
>> collection of EducationalEvents and CreativeWorks.
>>
>>   > Not sure I understand.
>>
>> Generally a course is a sequence of zero(*) or more events (online or
>> offline) and a collection of zero or more course materials (required
>> reading, videos, assignments, assessments, course handbook and so on).
>> (* Some courses, e.g. self-paced correspondence courses are 100% the
>> course materials, some are just events).
>> This addresses problems with the current proposal such as the assumption
>> that the location "were the session will meet" is a single place and that
>> meetings will take place at fixed recurring times for the whole of the
>> CourseSession.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> On 16/12/14 18:19, Guha wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Guha <guha@google.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> See comments inline
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 3:19 AM, Barker, Phil A <Phil.Barker@hw.ac.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Vicki, thanks for the heads up, I would have missed this otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> I have added some comments to the Google Doc, the most significant are:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Courses can comprise Courses. This is especially important at
>>>> Universities that recruit into and award certificates for programmes
>>>> (Courses) that are built from modules (Courses).
>>>>
>>>
>>>  I think a programme is different from a course.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2. I don't think there is much to be gained from having a separate
>>>> class on OnlineCourse rather than a property of a Course to flag whether it
>>>> is online or not. I  think the properties you have for OnlineCourse also
>>>> apply to regular courses. Most regular courses have an online component.
>>>>
>>>>   Something like an edX course is very different from a high school
>>> course where the student shows up in class. The former has a number of
>>> properties that don't make sense for the latter. So, it needs to be a class.
>>>
>>>
>>>>  3. I think it would be better to model an instance of a Course as a
>>>> collection of EducationalEvents and CreativeWorks.
>>>>
>>>>   Not sure I understand.
>>>
>>>
>>>>  4. Language is difficult. The different usage between UK and US
>>>> English is one thing, but more importantly commonly used terms often relate
>>>> to specific education systems or pedagogies. So phrases like "instructors
>>>> deliver lessons to students" implies a particular pedagogy. Also this means
>>>> that common terms become ambiguous and open to misinterpretation in
>>>> international use, e.g. class, course, programme, module. This is important
>>>> in schema.org where definitions tend to be minimalist.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>> As a general question, do you have some usecases in mind and target
>>>> example websites? It's difficult to assess whether these properties are
>>>> sufficient and realistic without those.
>>>>
>>>>   Yes. There is request to be able to describe the offerings of edX,
>>> et. al. with schema.org properties
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Phil Barker           @philbarker
>> LRMI, Cetis, ICBL     http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>> Heriot-Watt University
>>
>> Ubuntu: http://xkcd.com/456/
>>   not so much an operating system as a learning opportunity.
>>
>>
>
Received on Monday, 22 December 2014 16:52:38 UTC

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