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Re: [Proposal] schema:OnlineCourse

From: Steve Midgley <steve.midgley@mixrun.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2014 13:01:01 -0800
Message-ID: <CAJexoSJFfdqJ-NcDbxQsvx6JtebFYgLj_2-GkazDMhtNKiuVGA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk>
Cc: W3C Vocabularies <public-vocabs@w3.org>
Jumping in pretty late here, but here a couple of vocab points:

   - It is useful to identify whether or not you have to physically be
   present in a specific location in order to take the course (that's a key
   distinction I think is worth describing in the "online vs offline"
   discussion).
   - location: [https://schema.org/location]
      - This would be in addition to any URL to the course which would help
      online users access the course.
      - Some courses may have a physical location and an online url. Some
      courses may have multiple physical locations.
   - It is useful to know whether you have to start or finish the course by
   a certain date. Thing>Event models this pretty well, and I think Phil is
   advocating for an "EducationalEvent" which may just be an Thing>Event that
   is attached to a Course.

And a couple of modeling points:

   - "Course of study" or "curriculum" or "learning pathway" are all
   equivalent for me. They link individual learning opportunities together. It
   would be great to have a well-defined way to do this -- possibly using
   existing linked-data approaches (outside my expertise).
   - Course/Section are well described by CEDS and we should just use their
   definitions. Their modeling is probably too complex for schema's purposes,
   but it's crucial (IMO) that we permit describing specific physical and
   online availability of a Course separate from the Course itself (many
   offerings => one course).

I hope this input is useful..
Steve




On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk> wrote:

>  Guha, everyone
>
> Programme / Course, yes maybe different, as discussed later in the thread.
>
> > Something like an edX course is very different from a high school course
> where the student shows up in class.
> > The former has a number of properties that don't make sense for the
> latter. So, it needs to be a class.
>
> I don't think the proposal shows any real differences. The proposed
> properties of OnlineCourse (seller, offers, previewUrl) could all apply to
> face-to-face courses. Sure, there are the differences you mention, but
> these are differences in the way the course is presented, CourseSessions in
> the current proposal. Perhaps OnlineCourseSession as a subclass of
> CourseSession would make more sense.
>
>  3. I think it would be better to model an instance of a Course as a
> collection of EducationalEvents and CreativeWorks.
>
>   > Not sure I understand.
>
> Generally a course is a sequence of zero(*) or more events (online or
> offline) and a collection of zero or more course materials (required
> reading, videos, assignments, assessments, course handbook and so on).
> (* Some courses, e.g. self-paced correspondence courses are 100% the
> course materials, some are just events).
> This addresses problems with the current proposal such as the assumption
> that the location "were the session will meet" is a single place and that
> meetings will take place at fixed recurring times for the whole of the
> CourseSession.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On 16/12/14 18:19, Guha wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Guha <guha@google.com> wrote:
>>
>> See comments inline
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 3:19 AM, Barker, Phil A <Phil.Barker@hw.ac.uk>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Vicki, thanks for the heads up, I would have missed this otherwise.
>>>
>>> I have added some comments to the Google Doc, the most significant are:
>>>
>>> 1. Courses can comprise Courses. This is especially important at
>>> Universities that recruit into and award certificates for programmes
>>> (Courses) that are built from modules (Courses).
>>>
>>
>>  I think a programme is different from a course.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 2. I don't think there is much to be gained from having a separate class
>>> on OnlineCourse rather than a property of a Course to flag whether it is
>>> online or not. I  think the properties you have for OnlineCourse also apply
>>> to regular courses. Most regular courses have an online component.
>>>
>>>   Something like an edX course is very different from a high school
>> course where the student shows up in class. The former has a number of
>> properties that don't make sense for the latter. So, it needs to be a class.
>>
>>
>>>  3. I think it would be better to model an instance of a Course as a
>>> collection of EducationalEvents and CreativeWorks.
>>>
>>>   Not sure I understand.
>>
>>
>>>  4. Language is difficult. The different usage between UK and US
>>> English is one thing, but more importantly commonly used terms often relate
>>> to specific education systems or pedagogies. So phrases like "instructors
>>> deliver lessons to students" implies a particular pedagogy. Also this means
>>> that common terms become ambiguous and open to misinterpretation in
>>> international use, e.g. class, course, programme, module. This is important
>>> in schema.org where definitions tend to be minimalist.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps.
>>>
>>> As a general question, do you have some usecases in mind and target
>>> example websites? It's difficult to assess whether these properties are
>>> sufficient and realistic without those.
>>>
>>>   Yes. There is request to be able to describe the offerings of edX,
>> et. al. with schema.org properties
>>
>>
>
> --
> --
> Phil Barker           @philbarker
> LRMI, Cetis, ICBL     http://people.pjjk.net/phil
> Heriot-Watt University
>
> Ubuntu: http://xkcd.com/456/
>   not so much an operating system as a learning opportunity.
>
>
Received on Friday, 19 December 2014 21:01:29 UTC

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