W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-vocabs@w3.org > February 2012

Re: Schema.org Required Properties (Was "Re: Issue with rich snippets tools testing tool & businessEvent")

From: Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 10:43:22 +0100
Cc: Mark Keller <webnetworkz@gmail.com>, Adrian Giurca <giurca@tu-cottbus.de>, public-vocabs@w3.org
Message-Id: <75A4F9B6-1EFF-4502-9AF6-F3100DC2BAC5@ebusiness-unibw.org>
To: Jocelyn Fournier <jocelyn.fournier@googlemail.com>
Jocelyn:

Note that while schema.org is a joint endeavor of Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, and Yandex, the consumption of the data is not. For general legal reasons, the competitive nature of the search engine business, and for anti-trust laws, you will typically not get an official statement by the search engines on aspects related to the consumption of schema.org markup.

Such statements can only be found in the respective Webmaster forums under the control of a single search engine vendor.

It is very important for the sponsors of schema.org to demonstrate clearly that schema.org is not a form of joint control over the search engine market.

Best

Martin

On Feb 16, 2012, at 9:59 PM, Jocelyn Fournier wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Is there any official position from Google / Yahoo / Microsoft about what we should do in this case ? (or a least what is the current search engine parser behaviour)
> 
> Thanks a lot,
>  Jocelyn
> 
> Le 25/01/12 05:35, Jocelyn Fournier a écrit :
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Another question :
>> Let's say I'm adding markup on the collection page, what's happening if
>> I have :
>> 
>> On pageA (the collection page) :
>> 
>> 
>> <div itemscope="itemscope" itemtype="http://schema.org/BusinessEvent">
>> <a itemprop="url" href="pageB">My great page</a>
>> <time itemprop="startDate" datetime="2012-06-14 00:00:00">14/06/2012</time>
>> </div>
>> 
>> On pageB (the target page with the full markup) :
>> 
>> <div itemprop="about" itemscope="itemscope"
>> itemtype="http://schema.org/BusinessEvent">
>> <div itemprop="name">My great page</div>
>> <time itemprop="startDate" datetime="2012-06-20 00:00:00">20/06/2012</time>
>> [...]
>> </div>
>> 
>> ie. different informations provided on the collection and target page,
>> for the same event.
>> 
>> If the search engine is able to say there's an error somewhere in this
>> case, then it should be able to extract the data from the target page to
>> fill the missing itemprop on the collection page. If it's not able to do
>> the check, it's annoying :)
>> 
>> From my point of view, to try to reduce errors during markup (which is
>> a problem Google try to fight), we should avoid (forbid ?) any other
>> markup in an itemtype if itemprop="url" is used.
>> 
>> 
>> Jocelyn
>> 
>> 
>> Le 24/01/12 22:11, Mark Keller a écrit :
>>> Hey Everyone,
>>> 
>>> I definitely agree that the amount of hidden properties should be
>>> minimized as best practice.
>>> 
>>> "
>>> 
>>> * *More is better, except for hidden text.* In general, the more
>>> content you mark up, the better. However, as a general rule, you
>>> should mark up only the content that is visible to people who visit
>>> the web page and not content in hidden div's or other hidden page
>>> elements.
>>> 
>>> "
>>> In hindsight of my own crawling and research, I can also see how the
>>> requirements of this type of schema, could lead to better validation, in
>>> this verified form of information.
>>> 
>>> Considering that I will probably run into this a lot myself with Events,
>>> I would definitely like closure on the topic. I do not want to redesign
>>> my entire layout, nor include hidden tags that are in general frowned
>>> upon.
>>> 
>>> The main goal of search, always should be in favor of the users first. I
>>> believe they will do their best to align the syntax of Schema.org with
>>> the most relevant, valid, and verified way of consuming structured data.
>>> From there parsing, evaluating, and ultimately displaying it in a
>>> relevant manner for the end users, is up to them.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Mark Keller
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 12:17 AM, Adrian Giurca <giurca@tu-cottbus.de
>>> <mailto:giurca@tu-cottbus.de>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Mark and Jocelyn,
>>> 
>>> On 1/23/2012 6:34 PM, Jocelyn Fournier wrote:
>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>> 
>>>> Le 23/01/12 09:01, Mark Keller a écrit :
>>>>> Hello Jocelyn,
>>>>> 
>>>>> (Looping in the group to our conversation)
>>>>> 
>>>>> I definitely see what you are saying about it being a link to the
>>>>> page
>>>>> with the structured markup.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you are going to markup the url for an itemtype of Event, you
>>>>> will
>>>>> most likely need to include the name, url, and startDate at a
>>>>> minimum.
>>>> 
>>>> Actually I was considering (perhaps wrongly) if a url property is
>>>> used, whatever the itemtype, there shouldn't be any other markup
>>>> since it should be described on the target page (as long as it's
>>>> on the same domain). Otherwise it's just redundant informations;
>>>> and in my case since I doesn't display the startDate, it would
>>>> force me to use hidden properties. As for the name, I assume it
>>>> should (could ?) extract it from the url anchor text ?
>>> Indeed, according with the Schema.org documentation
>>> <http://schema.org/docs/gs.html#schemaorg_expected> (see also my
>>> email on Intended types
>>> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2011Nov/0039.html>)
>>> 
>>> <div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/SportsEvent">
>>> <a href="http://www.london2012.com/" *itemprop="url"*>London 2012
>>> Olympics</a>
>>> </div>
>>> 
>>> should be valid.
>>> 
>>> As a general rule I would say one should *annotate as much as possible*.
>>> 
>>> All the best,
>>> Adrian Giurca
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would like to quote the example on the Schema.org website, the
>>>>> Event
>>>>> itemtype page, where they gave this example of a url inside of the
>>>>> itemtype Event markup.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1.
>>>>> <divitemprop="events"itemscopeitemtype="http://schema.org/Event">
>>>>> 2. <ahref="foo-fighters-may23-midamericacenter"itemprop="url">
>>>>> 3. <spanitemprop="name">Mid America Center</span>
>>>>> 4. </a>
>>>>> 5. <spanitemprop="location">Council Bluffs, IA, US</span>
>>>>> 6. <metaitemprop="startDate"content="2011-05-23">May 23
>>>>> 7. <ahref="ticketmaster.com/foofighters/may23-2011
>>>>> <http://ticketmaster.com/foofighters/may23-2011>
>>>>> <http://ticketmaster.com/foofighters/may23-2011>"itemprop="offers">Buy
>>>>> tickets</a>
>>>>> 8. </div>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have not found a way to properly create links with itemtype
>>>>> Events in
>>>>> the fashion you mentioned ( other than marking up all the required
>>>>> information ).
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am not saying this is not a bug, just my 2cents...
>>>> 
>>>> Yup, some clarifications would be helpful in this case :)
>>>> 
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Jocelyn Fournier
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 

--------------------------------------------------------
martin hepp
e-business & web science research group
universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen

e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
         http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
skype:   mfhepp 
twitter: mfhepp

Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
=================================================================
* Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
Received on Friday, 17 February 2012 09:43:52 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Tuesday, 22 May 2012 06:48:59 GMT