W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-sweo-ig@w3.org > February 2007

Re: Now it's RDF vs Microformats

From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:19:32 -0500
Message-ID: <45DDB484.9080804@openlinksw.com>
CC: W3C SWEO IG <public-sweo-ig@w3.org>

Ian Davis wrote:
> I think it's very unproductive to pitch RDF vs Microformats and 
> neither "side" should be arrogant enough to think they have nothing to 
> learn from the other. We need to be building bridges with the MF 
> community. GRDDL is one mechanism, but other ways include working with 
> them to ensure that their models are consistent; showing how RDF can 
> complement existing MFs and generally promote them on a quid pro quo 
> basis.
> Ian
Ian et al,

The problem is that some pundits only see the world of "eye attraction" 
via "This vs That" there is no concept of "AND". It is "OR" or "Nothing".

Microformats like most of Web 2.0 actually make the journey towards Data 
Web (Semantic Web - Layer 1) easier to comprehend (they just don't know 
that due to the low signal and high noise levels associated with the 

Paul: I have little to add to Benjamin and Danny's comments (agree with 
both). Just do not be baited into RDF vs. Microformats since this is 
inherently contradictory and unproductive. The trouble is that the bait 
takes many forms, so take a deep breath (feel the force in a sense) and 
then respond :-)

The key message I get from the vecosys post is this: Where are the 
practical demos and usecases that showcase RDF's virtues? That is a 
message for SWEO and this is where you can highlight the various SWEO 
projects from the perspective of specific benefits (don't take the 
"potential use cases" route):

1. FOAF Whitelist - Using RDF as additional artillery in the war against 
SPAM (hidden message: you can't solve this without the ability to 
interrogate RDF Model instance data)
2. Linking Open Data - The availability of RDF Data is critical to the 
creation of virtuous RDF applications in general. RDF Data Sources are 
emerging across the Web as near exponential rates. 
http://pingthesemanticweb.com could be used as reference point (if you 

You could also have a little play with these RDF Browsers:

1. http://demo.openlinksw.com/DAV/JS/tests/rdfbrowser/index.html (note: 
CSS and Layout beautification for Grandma etc is coming, but there is a 
powerful concept demonstrated here re. Data Web Traversal by extending 
the functionality of the (X)HTML anchor tag without breaking anything. 
Data Access is fundamentally about lookup driven discovery)

2. http://3ba.se/ (Ontowiki)

3. http://demo.openlinksw.com/isparql (note the same underlying 
technology drives item 1).

When playing with 1 or 2. Experiment with the following URLs as RDF Data 
Source URIs:

2. http://del.icio.us/events/sweo
3. http://danbri.org
4. http://dannyayers.com
5. http://techcrunch.com
6. http://vecosys.com

In each case, just click on the links presented in the results pages. 
Hopefully, the difference between Hypertext Browsing and Data Web 
browsing should become a little clearer :-)


>       _____________________________________________
>       *From: * public-sweo-ig-request@w3.org
>       [_mailto:public-sweo-ig-request@w3.org_] * On Behalf Of* Paul
>       Walsh, Segala
>       *Sent: * 22 February 2007 11:20
>       *To: * 'W3C SWEO IG'
>       *Subject: * Now it's RDF vs Microformats
>       Thought some of you might like to comment on this [1]. Iím going
>       to write a post addressing the same topic but to counter Samís
>       misunderstanding and his failure to understand that Microformats
>       is (part of) the Semantic Web Ė addressing approximately 1% (+-
>       1% ;)) of the Semantic Web potential and using an extremely good
>       hacked method thatís not based on standards.
>       Ok now that Iíve said it without thinking properly (which can be
>       a good thing), what do you think about my use of the word hacked
>       (I wonít quote you).
>       I met David Recordon [2] last night and talked about OpenID and
>       how to get FOAF into the mix. This is something Iíve chatted
>       (briefly) about with Philip Hallam-Baker and Dan Brickley, who
>       have the same view. Iíd like to push this conversation if anyone
>       here is interested in helping to make it a reality and not just
>       a conversation.
>       Iíll use my talk tonight [3] as an opportunity to spell out the
>       problems with the comparison above.
>       [1]*
>       **_http://www.vecosys.com/2007/02/22/the-semantic-web-complexity-versus-simplicity/_*
>       [2]* **_http://daveman692.livejournal.com/_*
>       [3]* **_http://tinyurl.com/2sbqne_*
>       Cheers
>       Paul
>       ----------------------------------------
>       Segala, CEO
>       *Office: *+44 (0)1483 572 800
>       *Mobile: *+44 (0)7738 758 848
>       ----------------------------------------
>       *Visit our blog*
>       *_http://segala.com/blog/_**/ /*
>       *Download our Firefox Extension*
>       *_http://searchthresher.segala.com/_** *
>       *Do you design, build or test Web sites?*
>       *Join the Segala-Certified Partner Programme for Accessibility*
>       *_http://partner.segala.com_* <http://affiliate.segala.com/>
> *The very latest from Talis*
> read the latest news at _www.talis.com/news <http://www.talis.com/news>_
> listen to our podcasts _www.talis.com/podcasts 
> <http://www.talis.com/podcasts>_
> see us at these events _www.talis.com/events 
> <http://www.talis.com/events>_
> join the discussion here _www.talis.com/forums 
> <http://www.talis.com/forums>_
> join our developer community _www.talis.com/tdn 
> <http://www.talis.com/tdn>_
> and read our blogs _www.talis.com/blogs <http://www.talis.com/blogs>_
> Any views or personal opinions expressed within this email may not be 
> those of Talis Information Ltd. The content of this email message and 
> any files that may be attached are confidential, and for the usage of 
> the intended recipient only. If you are not the intended recipient, 
> then please return this message to the sender and delete it. Any use 
> of this e-mail by an unauthorised recipient is prohibited.
> Talis Information Ltd is a member of the Talis Group of companies and 
> is registered in England No 3638278 with its registered office at 
> Knights Court, Solihull Parkway, Birmingham Business Park, B37 7YB.



Kingsley Idehen	      Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
President & CEO 
OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Received on Thursday, 22 February 2007 15:19:57 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 6 January 2015 20:28:52 UTC