W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-sweo-ig@w3.org > February 2007

RE: Now it's RDF vs Microformats

From: Paul Walsh, Segala <paulwalsh@segala.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 14:54:14 -0000
To: <kidehen@openlinksw.com>, <public-sweo-ig@w3.org>
Message-Id: <20070223145418.C86881E50DF75@postie1.hosting365.ie>

In response to everyone - if you revert back to some of the first emails
you'll notice that I was the first to suggest working with Microformats -
technology and people. I even suggested we look at how well microformats.org
works. However, some people need to be told what the differences are and
importantly, why the Semantic Web and RDF etc. is the way forward. 

When I met Dave Sifry from Technorati at Le Web 3 he immediately got hot
headed as soon as I mentioned FOAF (in about 10 seconds). I had to ask him
to calm down and allow me to finish... when I finished he suggested I get in
touch with Tantek but he never replied to my email! Then again Technorati
never replied to my emails regarding someone claiming a blog I own!

So, we should be cooperative yes, but everyone needs to realise that there
*is* an element of competition. I don't think it's necessary and I don't
like it personally. 

Good to know that Julian was involved in FOAF - thanks!

BTW, ReadWrite/Web [1] and Paul Miller wrote good posts about the London
mashup* last night, during which I presented Content Labels and Search
Thresher.

[1] http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/london_mashup_web30.php
[2] http://blogs.talis.com/nodalities/2007/02/mashup_event_bt_london.php 

My blog post about the RDF debate
http://segala.com/blog/london-mashup-semantic-web-or-web-30/ 

Paul 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-sweo-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:public-sweo-ig-request@w3.org]
On
> Behalf Of Kingsley Idehen
> Sent: 22 February 2007 15:20
> To: public-sweo-ig@w3.org
> Cc: W3C SWEO IG
> Subject: Re: Now it's RDF vs Microformats
> 
> 
> Ian Davis wrote:
> >
> > I think it's very unproductive to pitch RDF vs Microformats and
> > neither "side" should be arrogant enough to think they have nothing to
> > learn from the other. We need to be building bridges with the MF
> > community. GRDDL is one mechanism, but other ways include working with
> > them to ensure that their models are consistent; showing how RDF can
> > complement existing MFs and generally promote them on a quid pro quo
> > basis.
> >
> > Ian
> >
> >
> Ian et al,
> 
> The problem is that some pundits only see the world of "eye attraction"
> via "This vs That" there is no concept of "AND". It is "OR" or "Nothing".
> 
> Microformats like most of Web 2.0 actually make the journey towards Data
> Web (Semantic Web - Layer 1) easier to comprehend (they just don't know
> that due to the low signal and high noise levels associated with the
> realm).
> 
> Paul: I have little to add to Benjamin and Danny's comments (agree with
> both). Just do not be baited into RDF vs. Microformats since this is
> inherently contradictory and unproductive. The trouble is that the bait
> takes many forms, so take a deep breath (feel the force in a sense) and
> then respond :-)
> 
> 
> The key message I get from the vecosys post is this: Where are the
> practical demos and usecases that showcase RDF's virtues? That is a
> message for SWEO and this is where you can highlight the various SWEO
> projects from the perspective of specific benefits (don't take the
> "potential use cases" route):
> 
> 1. FOAF Whitelist - Using RDF as additional artillery in the war against
> SPAM (hidden message: you can't solve this without the ability to
> interrogate RDF Model instance data)
> 2. Linking Open Data - The availability of RDF Data is critical to the
> creation of virtuous RDF applications in general. RDF Data Sources are
> emerging across the Web as near exponential rates.
> http://pingthesemanticweb.com could be used as reference point (if you
> choose).
> 
> 
> You could also have a little play with these RDF Browsers:
> 
> 1. http://demo.openlinksw.com/DAV/JS/tests/rdfbrowser/index.html (note:
> CSS and Layout beautification for Grandma etc is coming, but there is a
> powerful concept demonstrated here re. Data Web Traversal by extending
> the functionality of the (X)HTML anchor tag without breaking anything.
> Data Access is fundamentally about lookup driven discovery)
> 
> 2. http://3ba.se/ (Ontowiki)
> 
> 3. http://demo.openlinksw.com/isparql (note the same underlying
> technology drives item 1).
> 
> When playing with 1 or 2. Experiment with the following URLs as RDF Data
> Source URIs:
> 
> 1.
>
http://www.vecosys.com/2007/02/22/the-semantic-web-complexity-versus-simplic
ity
> 2. http://del.icio.us/events/sweo
> 3. http://danbri.org
> 4. http://dannyayers.com
> 5. http://techcrunch.com
> 6. http://vecosys.com
> 
> 
> In each case, just click on the links presented in the results pages.
> Hopefully, the difference between Hypertext Browsing and Data Web
> browsing should become a little clearer :-)
> 
> 
> Kingsley
> 
> >
> >       _____________________________________________
> >       *From: * public-sweo-ig-request@w3.org
> >       [_mailto:public-sweo-ig-request@w3.org_] * On Behalf Of* Paul
> >       Walsh, Segala
> >       *Sent: * 22 February 2007 11:20
> >       *To: * 'W3C SWEO IG'
> >       *Subject: * Now it's RDF vs Microformats
> >
> >       Thought some of you might like to comment on this [1]. I'm going
> >       to write a post addressing the same topic but to counter Sam's
> >       misunderstanding and his failure to understand that Microformats
> >       is (part of) the Semantic Web - addressing approximately 1% (+-
> >       1% ;)) of the Semantic Web potential and using an extremely good
> >       hacked method that's not based on standards.
> >
> >       Ok now that I've said it without thinking properly (which can be
> >       a good thing), what do you think about my use of the word hacked
> >       (I won't quote you).
> >
> >       I met David Recordon [2] last night and talked about OpenID and
> >       how to get FOAF into the mix. This is something I've chatted
> >       (briefly) about with Philip Hallam-Baker and Dan Brickley, who
> >       have the same view. I'd like to push this conversation if anyone
> >       here is interested in helping to make it a reality and not just
> >       a conversation.
> >
> >       I'll use my talk tonight [3] as an opportunity to spell out the
> >       problems with the comparison above.
> >
> >       [1]*
> >
**_http://www.vecosys.com/2007/02/22/the-semantic-web-complexity-versus-
> simplicity/_*
> >
> >       [2]* **_http://daveman692.livejournal.com/_*
> >       [3]* **_http://tinyurl.com/2sbqne_*
> >
> >       Cheers
> >       Paul
> >
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> 
> --
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Kingsley Idehen	      Weblog:
http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
> President & CEO
> OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
Received on Friday, 23 February 2007 14:54:28 GMT

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