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meeting record: 2008-11-25 SWD WG telecon

From: Ralph R. Swick <swick@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:23:08 -0500
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20081125122140.02dbe858@127.0.0.1>
To: public-swd-wg@w3.org

The record of today's Semantic Web Deployment Working Group telecon
is now available:

  http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action03

A text snapshot follows.

----

                                SWD WG

25 Nov 2008

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0103.html

   See also: [3]IRC log, previous [4]2008-11-18

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-irc
      [4] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html

Attendees

   Present
          Tom Baker, Ralph Swick, Diego Berrueta, Ed Summers, Antoine
          Isaac, Daniel Rubin, Guus Schreiber, Margherita Sini,
          Alistair Miles, Jon Phipps

   Regrets
          Sean Bechhofer, Ben Adida

   Chair
          Guus

   Scribe
          Ralph

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Admin
         2. RDFa
         3. Recipes
         4. RDFa Metadata Note
         5. Other Business
         6. SKOS
         7. issue 36
         8. RDFa markup in SKOS Reference
         9. Features at Risk
     * Summary of Action Items
     _____________________________________________________

Admin

   RESOLUTION: accept minutes of the last telecon:
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html

     [16] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html

RDFa

   ACTION: [CONTINUES] Ben review RDFa Use Cases and propose transition
   to Group Note [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-minutes.html#action02]

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-minutes.html#action02

   -> [18]meeting record: 2008-11-20 RDFa telecon

     [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0095.html

Recipes

   Diego: Tom sent mail about a broken reference in the document
   ... should we publish an updated Note?

   Ralph: did we include a link to an errata document?

   Diego: the URI is still served but the document we want has moved

   <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to ask if it is clear what we should cite

   Tom: it's not clear what the intention of the Tag document is

   -> [19][Recipes] Reference to httpRange-14 [18]

     [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0078.html
     [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0095.html

   ACTION: Diego write a proposal to republish Recipes with the
   httpRange-14 reference corrected and a link to an errata document
   [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action02]

RDFa Metadata Note

   ACTION: Ralph post his comments on the editor's draft of the
   metadata note [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action03]

   Diego: I exchanged email with Ivan Herman
   ... apart from a couple of technical notes about the content, he
   said it would be important to let Ian Jacobs and Dominique
   Hazael-Massieux know of this work

   <edsu> +1 for having them review

   Ralph: I'd like the WG to produce one more editor's draft before we
   ask them for their review time
   ... not that the document is seriously flawed but I don't think
   we'll get them to review it many times

Other Business

   Guus: good to see the translations of RDFa Primer and Recipes

   -> [22]French translations [23]

     [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0098.html
     [23] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-swd-minutes.html#action10

   ACTION: [CONTINUES] Guus to look at OWL documents for review
   [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-swd-minutes.html#action10]

     [23] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-swd-minutes.html#action10

   Guus: SWD review of CURIE draft - done?
   [24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Oct/0214.h
   tml

     [24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Oct/0214.html

   Ralph: I think that's done and CURIE has moved on

SKOS

   Alistair: issues 135, 153, 175, 157, 186
   ... these 5 are the only issues for which we have not sent a
   response

   Guus: we still have 34 open issues

   Alistair: we have responses back from several commentors that I
   haven't yet entered into tracker
   ... there are also several from whom we've not heard back

   Guus: after a reasonable amount of time we can close the issue if we
   haven't heard back

   Alistair: as far as I know, only one issue has ongoing discussion

   Antoine: issue 160

   Alistair: it appears that Doug would be satisfied with changes to
   the Primer; he's looking for more guidance, not a change in the spec

   -> [25]issue 160; Allowing collections in semantic relationships

     [25] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/160

-- issue 135

   -> [26]issue 135; rdfs:label

     [26] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/135

   Guus: you're still waiting on my input

   Alistair: yes, we'd like Guus and Jeremey's implementation input

   ACTION: [CONTINUES] Guus and Jeremy to give concrete implementation
   examples of the use of rdfs:label w/ SKOS [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-swd-minutes.html#action10]

     [27] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-swd-minutes.html#action10

   -> [28]ISSUE-135 draft response [25]

     [28] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0104.html
     [25] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/160

   ACTION: [DONE] Sean to propose a resolution to ISSUE-135 [recorded
   in [29]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action06]

     [29] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action06

   Guus: Sean's mail reflects the discussion we had last week
   ... I agree with it; change the label properties to be subproperties
   of owl:AnnotationProperty

   Antoine: draft response is OK with me

   Alistair: I'm not using OWL so I don't have a strong perspective on
   this

   Guus: as an OWL Full user, I don't have any problems anyway
   ... I'm fine with the change if it helps OWL DL folk
   ... there is a logic behind it

   RESOLUTION: draft response to issue 135 in
   [30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0104.h
   tml accepted

     [30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0104.html

   ACTION: Alistair send issue 135 response from
   [31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0104.h
   tml [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action08]

     [31] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0104.html

-- issue 157

   -> [33]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/157 issue 157;
   SKOS and OWL 2 analysis

     [33] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/157

   Alistair: I believe Sean was going to identify those parts of SKOS
   that are outside of OWL DL
   ... I think Sean may be expecting Guus to respond as well

   ACTION: Guus discuss response to issue 157 with Sean [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action12]

-- issue 153

   -> [35]issue 153; SKOS namespace change question

     [35] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/153

   Guus: last discussion we were moving in the direction of keeping the
   old namespace

   Alistair: yes, I believe Sean was going to draft a proposed
   resolution to keep the old namespace

-- issue 186

   ACTION: [DONE] Guus to propose answer for issue 186 [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-swd-minutes.html#action02]

     [36] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-swd-minutes.html#action02

   Guus: I completed that action

   ACTION: Guus send response for issue 186 [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action10]

   -> [38]ISSUE 186 - draft response [18]

     [38] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0079.html
     [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0095.html

   ACTION: Sean to add rdf:type and rdf:Property assertions to the skos
   schema [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action07]
   [CONTINUES]

     [39] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action07

   <aliman> [40]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20081001/

     [40] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20081001/

-- issue 175

   -> [41]SKOS namespace change question II

     [41] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/175

   Ralph: nothing new in 175, right? Duplicate of 153

   Alistair: yes, it was primarily Jeremey noting that had he been in
   the WG at the time he would have voted to keep the old namespace

   Alistair: there was further discussion about making mappingRelation
   a subproperty of semanticRelation

   ACTION: Alistair add an issue for Bernard's comment on
   mappingRelation and draft a response [recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action13]

issue 36

   <Antoine>
   [43]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0015.h
   tml

     [43] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0015.html

   Antoine: I had a comment about part of resolution for issue 36
   missing from the spec

   -> [44]issue 36; ConceptSchemeContainment

     [44] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/36

   Antoine: Doug asked for pointer to the final resolution of this
   issue
   ... and I couldn't cite it for him

   Alistair: we initially suggested the use of RDF named graphs and
   that we'd cite this in the references
   ... later, Sean thought this was out-of-scope for SKOS Reference
   ... and we removed a number of informational appendices, this among
   them
   ... this appendix was only a place-holder anyway
   ... I'd be happy for content to be added to the Primer

   Antoine: there's a sentence in the Primer already mentioning
   possible use of RDF named graphs

   Guus: we could add an example

   Ralph: I'm reluctant to add examples when named graphs haven't been
   standardized

   Alistair: could show SPARQL usage

   Guus: yes, a procedural method to handle this

   Antoine: I can think about some examples, perhaps not in the place
   where the current note appears

   Guus: 1 or 2 SPARQL examples would be sufficient

   ACTION: Antoine propose 1 or 2 SPARQL examples showing named graph
   usage [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action14]

RDFa markup in SKOS Reference

   ACTION: Ralph to report on use of RDFa metadata in Recommendations.
   [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action02]
   [CONTINUES]

     [46] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action02

   Ralph: We can certainly do SKOS CR with RDFa markup

   Guus: next week can we be prepared to close issues in tracker and
   have draft responses for the remaining 5 issues
   ... should we meet next week?

   Alistair: I'd like to keep our momentum up

Features at Risk

   Guus: we've discussed the namespace question

   [[

   At Risk of Change: The relationships between the properties
   skos:exactMatch, skos:broadMatch and skos:narrowMatch may be changed
   in future versions of this specification. In particular, property
   chain axioms may be introduced.

   ]]

   -- [47]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20081001/#L5675

     [47] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20081001/#L5675

   Alistair: I don't recall any comments addressing this

   Guus: so we should leave it as is

   Alistair: agree

   Guus: topConceptOf

   Alistair: I don't think Kjetil objects

   Antoine: [48]issue 176 draft response

     [48] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Oct/0151.html

   Alistair: there was confusion here; Jeremey did comment but only on
   whether we should hesitate to express something not in OWL1
   ... Sean just clarified that we were hesitating not because of OWL1
   v. OWL2 concerns but because we couldn't reach a definitive decision
   about the feature at all

   <Antoine> [49]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/163

     [49] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/163

   -- issue 163

   Antoine: minor editorial issue 163

   <Antoine> [50]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/164

     [50] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/164

   Antoine: issue 164 implied some extensive modifications to the
   Primer but Doug approved the changes we did make
   ... so nothing particularly substantial
   ... I drafted proposed responses

   <Antoine> proposal:
   [51]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0074.h
   tml

     [51] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0074.html

   RESOLUTION: accept resolution to issues 163 and 164 per Antoine's
   email of 18 Nov;
   [52]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0074.h
   tml

     [52] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0074.html

   RESOLUTION: Next telecon 2 Dec

   [adjourned]

   ACTION: [PENDING] Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of
   Recipes implementations] [recorded in
   [53]http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20]

     [53] http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Alistair add an issue for Bernard's comment on
   mappingRelation and draft a response [recorded in
   [54]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action13]
   [NEW] ACTION: Alistair send issue 135 response from
   [55]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0104.h
   tml [recorded in
   [56]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action08]
   [NEW] ACTION: Antoine propose 1 or 2 SPARQL examples showing named
   graph usage [recorded in
   [57]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action14]
   [NEW] ACTION: Diego write a proposal to republish Recipes with the
   httpRange-14 reference corrected and a link to an errata document
   [recorded in
   [58]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: Guus discuss response to issue 157 with Sean [recorded
   in [59]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action12]
   [NEW] ACTION: Guus send response for issue 186 [recorded in
   [60]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action10]
   [NEW] ACTION: Ralph post his comments on the editor's draft of the
   metadata note [recorded in
   [61]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-swd-minutes.html#action03]

     [55] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Nov/0104.html

   [PENDING] ACTION: Ben review RDFa Use Cases and propose transition
   to Group Note [recorded in
   [62]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-minutes.html#action02]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Guus and Jeremy to give concrete implementation
   examples of the use of rdfs:label w/ SKOS [recorded in
   [63]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-swd-minutes.html#action10]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Guus to look at OWL documents for review [recorded
   in [64]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-swd-minutes.html#action10]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph to report on use of RDFa metadata in
   Recommendations. [recorded in
   [65]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action02]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of
   Recipes implementations] [recorded in
   [66]http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Sean to add rdf:type and rdf:Property assertions
   to the skos schema [recorded in
   [67]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action07]

     [62] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-minutes.html#action02
     [63] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-swd-minutes.html#action10
     [64] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-swd-minutes.html#action10
     [65] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action02
     [66] http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20
     [67] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action07

   [DONE] ACTION: Guus to propose answer for issue 186 [recorded in
   [68]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-swd-minutes.html#action02]
   [DONE] ACTION: Sean to propose a resolution to ISSUE-135 [recorded
   in [69]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action06]

     [68] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-swd-minutes.html#action02
     [69] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-swd-minutes.html#action06

   [End of minutes]
     _____________________________________________________


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